Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hard_working_student @ Nov 2 2006, 12:25 AM) [snapback]342399[/snapback]</div>

hmmmm...It seems to me that by requiring 5,000 mile oil changes in the US for a car that only requires changing at 9,000 elsewhere to keep the warranty in effect fits the above definition of fraud.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 2 2006, 04:36 PM) [snapback]342914[/snapback]</div>

Hey!

I'm the spelling Nazi here and I don't take kindly to people ignoring this. Since all this was written in the heat of battle, I give her a pass. ....This time.....

(We've reached an agreement on capitalization.)

On the other hand, I can't tolerate it when people spell "abide" as "obide." Just an FYI.

(Isn't Utah part of OUR LAND too? Did the Mormons secede?)

Geesh.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 2 2006, 12:46 AM) [snapback]342406[/snapback]</div>

I think this is one primary answer to the question.

To the OP: the other one is, lighten up with the conspiracy theories already!!

Why in God's name you'd buy oil and filters and then just keep them sitting around...the receipts as some sort of ersatz proof of care which your car didn't receive...especially since it's NOT an environmental issue with you, first and foremost, is a complete mystery to me.

Frankly, if the next Toyota I buy costs more because folks like you are trying to get away with stuff like this, I wouldn't take too kindly to it.

If Toyota can figure out that your engine has not been maintained correctly, more power to them. I think that, if I had to decide if Toyota or an individual like yourself was the more honest of the two, I'd go with Toyota. Sure, they probably mess with us in other ways, but that doesn't mean you have to join the fray, now, does it?

Either change the oil, or grow up and accept the consequences of not maintaining the engine as the manufacturer suggests. After all, being a rebel and standing up for what one believes sometimes has costs associated with it...in this case, possibly paying for a rebuilt engine out of your own pocket. Are you willing to accept those potential consequences? There's your answer.

I'm not. There's mine.

It's your choice.

 

changing oil here in NL is after 15.000km or once a year whichever comes first

http://www.toyota.nl/Images/onderhoud_priu...cm27-231712.pdf

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(guppy @ Dec 24 2006, 06:24 AM) [snapback]366233[/snapback]</div>

Interesting reading for those of us who don't know the language, but exactly what brand and type of oil is used by the dealers (or specified in the owner's manual) for these oil changes?

Thanks very much for adding this information, by the way.

-Roger

 

You can change your oil at any interval. However, taking the time to systematically service a vehicle following manufacturer protocols amounts to individual and cumulative preventative maintenance. Just opening the hood and crawling underneath every 5000 mi makes a huge difference in the quality and longevity of a vehicle. You have consistent opportunities to notice and take care of things before they become a major problem. In effect regular oil changes at 5000 mi intervals is cheap insurance and effectively doubles the life of a vehicle.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ Dec 24 2006, 09:42 PM) [snapback]366420[/snapback]</div>

I agree, and didn't oil changes used to be recommended every 3000 miles??? So I figure every 5000 and I'm already saving with the Prius. I certainly dont think its environmentally sound policy to purchase oil and just keep it in the garage. Anyway, I want to do everything I can to keep my Prius in tip top shape, including ALL recommended preventative maintenance.

 

sl7vk-
Feel free to do what ever you wish to do with your car, 5K, 10K or neverK.

I happen to think one who thinks as you have expressed is just a fraud looking for a way to cheat someone out of something. Be it Toyota if their car breaks or the next owner of that car when they sell it and tell them they changed the oil/filter every 5K....look at all the receipts and boxes!

In my experience this type of thinking probably permeates their entire life and one will get, if one has not already, their come-uppance. It never ceases to amaze me the people who think like that and then when they are charged criminally with some type of fraud or another, cry to their defense team that they did nothing wrong and just can't go to prison........I tell them all the same thing, better pack your toothbrush when you go to court.

I feel no sympathy for those types of people. Live honestly and do right by people and one will never have to look over their shoulder for that fatal blow (figuratively speaking of course).

 

I'm a new Prius owner, with 2K miles on an '07.

One of the first things I noticed was the 5K oil change interval. It's 7.5K miles on my two Civics.

I've run Mobil 1 in all my vehicles, and have done so for more than 10 years. Trust me: Mobil 1 may break down with too many miles, but it will never sludge up. I had an old car which needed the oil pan replaced due to a scrape/rust hole. The car had Mobil 1 in the previous 60K miles. The old oil pan was spotless, with nary a hint of sludge.

I know I can go 10K miles on Mobil 1, even the "cheap" non-extended life version. I'll probably honor Toyota's interval during the warranty period.

One thing I see here is people going to a viscosity grade which is thinner than what Toyota recommends. It seems a bit odd for people to rail against too-long intervals on oil changes when at the same time they are violating Toyota's viscosity recommendations. I plan on complying with both, at least for the warranty period.

I am more concerned about what the compression ratio is, and protecting the engine with the viscosity of oil that Toyota calls for. I've heard of the 13:1 ratio, and don't really know if that is correct or not.

I do have a motorcycle with 11:1 compression which is air cooled and requires 20W-50. I figure Mobil 1 15W-50 is close enough, and use that, but I wouldn't dare use oil thinner than that.

I have had an oil analysis done on an old motorcycle which leaked gasoline into the crankcase. Even thinned out with gasoline, Mobil 1 protected that engine, and the oil analysis came back just fine.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ Dec 24 2006, 09:42 PM) [snapback]366420[/snapback]</div>

I agree, but that sort of procedure should be done much more often then every 5,000 miles. If you catch a torn CV boot early enough, it's a quick and fairly inexpensive repair, usually under $100. If you wait untl the CV joint is trashed, better cough up $500 +

It really doesn't take me more than 10-15 minutes every week or two to give a very thorough once-over of the entire car. So far I haven't caught anything but the peace-of-mind is good too. For a troublesome vehicle - like the 2000 GMC Sierra I used to own - frequent checkups were essential. That's how I quickly spotted the leaking rear pinion seal, and leaking rear axle seals, on that stinky POS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rangerdavid @ Dec 24 2006, 10:46 PM) [snapback]366429[/snapback]</div>

Well, the sore point with me is that virtually every other vehicle on the road has a minimum 7,500 mile oil change interval. The first generation Prius also had a 7,500 mile interval. For a car that purports to be so "environmentally responsible" having one of the shortest oil change intervals on the road is contradictory to say the least.

I had a 1990 Toyota 4Runner that had a “normal†12 month or 7,500 mile oil change interval. I never changed the oil more often than that recommendation, and after 300,000 km the V6 was tight and strong, with no noticeable oil consumption running various Mobil 1 and Esso XD-3 viscosity grades.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cairo94507 @ Dec 26 2006, 10:56 AM) [snapback]366693[/snapback]</div>

That may be true. However I carefully document everything with the oil - Mobil 1 - and especially the results of the used oil analysis. My ace in the hole is the virgin oil analysis of the dealer bulk mystery 5W-30 oil, that garbage I wouldn't trust past 5,000 km.

I opened a file with Toyota Canada about mysterious Na readings when I started my used oil analysis, after the first two complimentary dealer oil changes. They actually suggested it was my use of Mobil 1 that contributed to the high Na readings, though the wear metals were extremely low.

So I did the virgin oil analysis of Mobil 1, then on a suggestion by the testing lab also managed to grab a sample of the dealer oil. Once I presented that to Toyota Canada they changed their tune - pronto.

I even go to the extra step of providing a copy of the used oil analysis to my dealer service department, which they keep on file. They don't say one peep about me running 10,000-12,000km oil change intervals.

However as you can tell, I'm completely honest with the dealer and Toyota Canada about my oil change intervals.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Earthling @ Dec 26 2006, 12:00 PM) [snapback]366712[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I'm the person who is currently running Mobil 1 0W-30 in summer, and Mobil 1 0W-20 in winter. I'm planning on driving to the Twin Cities in Spring, and if I can stock up on 0W-20 I intend to run it year round.

As far as the blanket suggestion from Toyota about using a 5W-30 year round, for a moderate climate and "average" use, that works well. A 5W-30 really isn't suitable much colder than -30 C, and in my location winter lows of -40 can be expected in January.

If you care to search my posts, I have provided used oil analysis running Mobil 1 0W-30 and Mobil 1 0W-20. Except for a very high initial Na - caused by crap dealer 5W-30 oil see above - my wear metals and reserve TBN were quite fine.

There is a lot of documentation out there regarding LOWER engine wear running THINNER viscosity, especially in a city start-stop driving cycle. Consider that millions of North American Honda's and Ford's - even the V10's in newer motorhomes - are running a 5W-20 with good results. True enough the 5W-20 - especially the Motorcraft brand - is much better quallity that conventional 5W-30 and may qualify as a "semi-synthetic."

An air-cooled high-compression application like a motorcycle engine places entirely different demands on a motor oil than a water cooled car, especially if the motorcycle sump shares the gearbox. Although the Prius motor is nominally a high compression engine, the VVT and the crank arrangement is not conventional. A clue to that should be the fact the car recommends and runs just fine on regular 87 octane pump gas, no need for Premium.

In severe high rpm and high load conditions, you want an oil with a HTHS of at least 3.5 mPas - s, so something like Mobil 1 15W-50 would work well. At the opposite extreme of a car designed for fuel economy, with VVT, a thick oil could adversely affect the operation of VVT. At least one forum member has commented on adverse fuel economy effects when a quick-lube place filled with a very heavy oil.

About the only caution to running a much thicker oil is that in severe cold startups - say -30 C and colder - VVT may not operate at all, and you could even blow the front seal. Every cold snap here, especially a sudden drop to -40, there is a rash of blown front seals.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 1 2006, 09:25 PM) [snapback]342388[/snapback]</div>

Europeans measure distances in kommunist miles (abbreviated km) which like the economic system of the same name just doesn't give you what you get in the U.S.A. It takes about 8,000 kommunist miles to equal the basic American 5,000 miles.

How's that? B)

check out the website for Amsoil.com ( I think) They claim the europeans are getting 10,000 miles on regular oil changes and even more (up to 25,000 miles) with synthetics. Another tin-foil conspiracy theory. But still worth exploring. Especially in light of this 9k Euro vs 5k American you quote for the Prius. And I'm changing every 3,000 miles based on (apparently) 70's theory of car maintenance.

I'm in the middle of researching this for now. With 50,000 miles on my 2005 Prius, I am seriously considering using Mobil 1 Extended ($7/quart--possible cheaper at Wal Mart) and testing the oil at 10,000 miles. I'll report back in a year with the results.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr Rocket @ Aug 6 2007, 11:56 PM) [snapback]491718[/snapback]</div>

That really isn't a very productive comment to make regarding this topic. Though it DOES say a lot about you.

If you care to actually read the entire post, or many of my factual replies on the matter of oil analysis and extended oil intervals, you will discover the EU market Prius has a normal 12 month or 16,000 km / 10,000 mile oil change interval. Not sure how that translates to your world of "kommunist miles" vs "American miles."

I'm not going to bother reposting but somewhere in PriusChat I posted the American Petroleum Institute detailed specifications. If you want a real eye-opening Conspiracy Nut document, please search for it and check it out. Executive Summary:

API GF-3 spec oils are still allowed to thicken 275% in use and earn a "pass." There is no requirement to prevent cold stuck oil rings. There is no requirement to prevent cold sludge. There is no requirement to prevent piston crown land deposits or piston ring land deposits. The test interval is around 1/3 that of the ACEA spec oils.

Perhaps that is why Toyota got burned by sludged motors, and universally lowered their oil change interval from 7,500 miles to 5,000 miles. Not much of a "green" company, is it?

Since the API is in the position to promote the industry, and to determine specs, they are clearly in a conflict of interest. The myth of 3,000 mile oil changes will prevail with the API around. Though I suppose the real bargain basement crap API oils may warrant replacement even sooner. I have posted virgin oil analysis of my crap bulk dealer oil.

The only way to determine the appropriate oil change interval is to perform kommunist laboratory analysis, paying particular attention to reserve TBN, moisture and fuel buildup, viscosity in centiStokes at +100 C (An American may be surprised to hear that all lab tests are in kommunist units!), and of course wear metals

If you care to search this forum using my user name and "oil analysis" you may also discover that running Mobil 1 0W-20 and the dealer oil filter, after 16,000 "kommunist miles" the used oil analysis was very good. The oil was clearly good for more, with results far better than the no-name crap dealer bulk oil after 8,000 kommunist miles

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Aug 7 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]491810[/snapback]</div>

You do know that "km = kommunist mile" was a joke, right?

But anyway, thanks for pointing out that US oils are lower quality than EU oils. If a US owner can use EU-quality oil then they are perfectly safe with the longer EU oil change interval.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Aug 7 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]491819[/snapback]</div>

What the hell - I'll chime in here.

First - my plan is to use Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 oil, and change it on 15,000 mile intervals. I am using a PureOne PL20195 filter - good filtration, same bypass pressure and quite a bit larger than the stock filter (so it is, I presume, much less likely to get clogged up).

Now, the thing that folks are leaving out of this discussion is the *REQUIRED* spec of the oil. Being in the US, the oil requirement is (IIRC) an oil that has the API starburst symbol. This means that we have an American oil change interval with an American oil specification.

Now, can anyone on the other side of the pond look at their owner's manual, and post what the specification is for the 16,000 KM / 10,000 mile oil is?

I bet the technical bottom line is this: As long as the oil that you use meets the European oil specifications, you can safely abide by the European oil change intervals. If you don't bother to use the better European spec. oil, you should use the shorter change intervals. And, only because the lower quality oil is commonly available in the US (thanks to the API?), Toyota is covering themselves by making the blanket 5k oil change recommendation whereas a tiered recommendation (based on oil quality) would be perfectly reasonable from a technical point of view.

I wouldn't run cheap oil for 10k or 15k miles. Toyota says we can run that for 5k miles no problem. But, I'm betting my engine on the fact that Mobil 1 EP is far better than cheap oil.

One more comment here: I know that Toyota has had problems with *OTHER* engines failing due to sludge and the like. But, I haven't heard *ANY* complaints about internal engine problems with the Prius. Thus, I bet it's pretty safe to use a good quality synthetic and change at extended intervals since problems don't appear to be occuring.

Now fire away!

 

Another thing to point out is that synthetic oil does not sludge like petroleum oil. If you want to extend your drain interval, you should absolutely be using a synthetic lubricant like Mobil 1 or Amsoil.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kohnen @ Aug 7 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]491833[/snapback]</div>

That sounds reasonable. If you have any doubts, do a used oil analysis every 5,000 miles. I agree with your other comments. IIRC Toyota in the EU has a blanket minimum ACEA A1 spec.

I mention the used oil analysis as I was *very* surprised at how hard the 4.0 V6 in my new FJ is on oil. The factory oil had a *lot* of shear after 1,200 miles. So I had an oil change and refilled with Mobil 1 0W-40. I should have 5,000 miles on that oil sometime early October, and will sample it again.

 

Kohnen, it would be interesting to see the analysis for TBN after 15k miles - betting that everything else will look good.

Ah, Fullerton my childhood home. Suburb of Disneyland.

 

Lets just say you used standard oil and filter every 5K. $2 quart plus $10 filter. $18 total over a period of 150K miles(what the battery is warranty for) that is $540 over the 150K miles.

Compare mobile 1 synthetic at $5 quart plus same filter every 10K that is $450 over 150K miles

Do you think your $20,000 - $27,000 vehicle is worth the extra one hundred lousy dollars to do the change every 5K miles.
Just be cheap and ruin a great vehicle. Go ahead. I would bet you would be happy with a ruined car for being cheap.
This is being very nice to say the least.

 

Per Priuschat recommendations, I use a Mobil 1 (extra capacity, heavier duty) filter and Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I rationalize that the ICE "only runs one-half the time," so oil changes are good preventative maintenance. Oil serves as both a lubricant and coolant in an ICE. The saying, "A gram of prevention is worth three kilograms of cure," holds true for Prius oil changes.