Tell me why I can't change my oil every 10k?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 1 2006, 09:46 PM) [snapback]342333[/snapback]</div>

sl7vk,

Fraud as defined by American Heritage Dictionary
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3. One that defrauds; a cheat.
4. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.

Are you attempting to deceive someone for your own benefit (gain)? Sounds like that is the pre-meditated plan with the receipts; therefore, you are hypothetically a fraud!!! Because of hypothetical people like yourself, there are statements like "buyer beware".

Just the thought of considering this fraudulent act is in itself shameful. If you said to your mother that you were going to hypothetically take money out of the church donation basket for personal gain, would you be proud of yourself. I hope not. Would your mother be proud of you, what would she view of your MORAL FIBER regardless of the fact that the event may not have take place yet? She might even call this a "DIRTY" thought.

You say you speak in hypotheticals but you are already saving the receipts and filter boxes to prove a false 5k mile oil change interval. I think your hypotheticals are null and void.

If you want to run 10,000 mile oil change intervals then do it, it is your car, it's your prerogative.

Just don't expect the REST OF US to pay the price for YOUR decision to voluntarily deviate from the recommendations.

Yes, that is right, Toyota, it's investors & employees in the USA Toyota plants are in business to make money. You don't think that they will just rebuild your engine for free. Yes, this will take money out of the pockets of my friends that work at the INDIANA Toyota plant. Yes, I do realize that the PRIUS is 100% Japanese made. That is where the term GLOBALIZATION brings it full circle back to folks in the USA.

This is simple filter down economics; the cost the service department incurs because of a FRAUDULANT CLAIM will eventually cost the dealership. The franchise will lose money, the parent company loses a chunk. Then interestingly, if enough hypothetically FRAUDULANT people like yourself try the same trick to get "free" service, the service fees across the board will increase. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH

Do what you want. Just don't try to leach off the rest of us when your decision backfires.

Oil changes are a time to do a complete maintenance check.
Some might call it preventative maintenance intervals.
Check the tires, the hoses, check the oil level, etc.

You might have enough oil, but a broken belt or a faulty hose will still leave you along the road side asking for help.

I am not slamming you, I just want you to think about your intentions to potentially defraud innocent people.

I run my other 2 cars at 6,000 - 8,000 mile oil change intervals with full synthetic oil; moreover, I check other maintenance items between intervals. With over 150,000 miles on one car with no engine problems (no burning of oil), I am happy with my decision. If the cars break then I'll stand up and admit that I made a mistake and take it like an honest person. Yes, I do realize that after 150,000 miles there is no warranty, but you should understand my point.

 

Where is Jayman when we need him?

He has posted numerous times in the past that European motor oil specifications are more stringent than they are in the United States.

This is what I found in a quick Google search:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Nov 1 2006, 09:57 PM) [snapback]342407[/snapback]</div>

Surprisingly, it is. Only Mobil 1 Extended Performance meets ACEA (European) specifications.

FAQs for Mobil 1 Extended Performance

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Nov 1 2006, 09:08 PM) [snapback]342376[/snapback]</div>

I don't believe that is a correct statement. Due to the late closing of the intake valve, the effective compression ratio is much lower than 13:1 (or whatever it is). IIRC it's something like 13:1 expansion ratio but only around 9.5:1 compression ratio. 9.5:1 isn't a high compresison ratio - most cars these days with that CR only require regular 87 octane fuel.

If the cylinder pressures really were higher as you claim, the engine would require higher octane fuel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 2 2006, 12:46 AM) [snapback]342406[/snapback]</div>

I'd feel safe with 15,000 km oil change intervals using oil surpassing ACEA A3 or A5 standards. A1 is their baseline. A3 and A5 are for extended drain intervals, with A5 supporting greater fuel efficiency through lower viscosity and A3 offering greater oil protection through heavier HTHS (high temperature, high shear) measurements.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Nov 2 2006, 01:03 AM) [snapback]342412[/snapback]</div>

I believe all decent synthetic oils (and a few excellent nonsynthetic oils) meet ACEA A1 as long as they aren't 20 weight. I use Mobil 1 0W40 on my Elantra. It surpasses ACEA A5. I've used old Mobil 1 0W30 on our Civic. It surpassed 0W30. Since Mobil segmented their market by introducing the Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils, Mobil no longer claims that their new Mobil 1 OW30 passes ACEA A5. I'll be looking for a new A5 oil when I start using extended drain intervals on the Prius. Maybe Castrol Syntec 5W30 or Mobil1-EP 5W30?

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorO...il_1_0W-40.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorO...il_1_0W-30.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorO...l_1_10W-30.aspx
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarti...ntentId=6006933

Can someone from Europe please tell us what oil or oil specifications Toyota calls for with the longer drain intervals?

 

The OP has been talking about European vs US oil change recommendations. It's 5,000 miles in the US, but 9,000 kilometers in Europe, which is equivalent to about 5,600 miles. That's not a very large difference.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jeannie @ Nov 2 2006, 05:47 AM) [snapback]342433[/snapback]</div>

That's not a big difference at all, and sort of funny... Thanks for clearing that up for us.

 

no, it's actually in miles and not km.

now as for this "drama queen" comment...
you wanted to know if you could fool toyota in case your extended oil change interval plan went awry. the answer is no. that is all there is to say. toyota picked 5k as the requirement over here, and that's just the way it is. go ahead and extend your oil change intervals, it's your car after all. you probably won't see any problems. in the case that you do, it's your problem so don't bother with the fake receipts and such.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Nov 2 2006, 09:57 AM) [snapback]342495[/snapback]</div>

The thread title mentioned 10k, someone else said it's 9, not 10, and somehow I got confused!

 

Galaxee, pardon me for jumping in with another question, but since I change the oil myself, all I do is basically write down the date and mileage in the schedule booklet that came with our Prius. Is hanging on to the receipts that important? Not that I expect to have any problems out of this engine, just curiosity. Thanks.

 

[attachmentid=5575]First, the Toyota-recommended engine oil change interval in UK is 16 000 km or 10 000 mi according to Prius drivers there. The best reason (as stated above) is a higher specification for engine oils there.

I have compiled posts of Prius used oil analyses before and here attach the most recent. I have not received explicit permission from each person to repost these, so must first ask forgiveness. Also if anyone notes errors in this please let me know.

I have in fact run Mobil 1 synthetic for about 12k miles before and found it still to have 'life' left in terms of viscosity and total base number. In fact no one has posted results from conventional or synthetic oil indicating that it was past its useful life. So in some sense we don't yet know what that would be in Prius.

In terms of wear metals, the most exciting values so far have been for 'first oil changes' - for this reason I never object if a Prius driver wants to do that first oil change early. In other cases, Prius releases hardly any wear metals to the oil (at least those particles small enough to elude the filter). For this reason the UOA experts who write the commentaries for the analyses all suggest that the engine will run a very long time.

In terms of protecting the engine, using the least amount of petroleum products, and defending oneself in a Toyota engine warranty showdown (all very appropriate goals), I continue to suggest synthetic oil changed at about 10k mile intervals and obtaining used oil analyses. A filter, 3.5 qts of synthetic, crush washer, and a $20 analysis will cost about $50 DIY. This is $0.005 per mile, and less than you'll spend on tires for example. To emphasize, UOA from *your Prius* is the best way to observe wear metal trends over time.

Would agree that engine sludge ought to be a non-issue for Prius; certainly not with low % water, soot, and viscosity still in spec.

Data are attached as an excel spreadsheet. More posted UOA are always welcome!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Nov 2 2006, 10:13 AM) [snapback]342505[/snapback]</div>

the general recommendation is save all receipts and write date, mileage and vin on them. in the unlikely case that something would happen, this would help you out tremendously.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Nov 1 2006, 11:54 PM) [snapback]342365[/snapback]</div>

I'm coming up on my 3rd oil change, and have been VERY pleased to note that my oil level has NEVER changed between oil changes! Its nice to see such a well-sealed engine, and assures me that the rings have broken in nicely. As long as I continue to maintain it well, I would expect it to remain tight for WELL over 100,000 miles. However, the only thing that does surprise me is that the Mobil 1 always has a slightly burned smell to it by 5000 miles, more than I would have expected from such a tight engine. If its not combustion contamination, what else would cause this?
BTW, as for me, I'm sticking to 5,000 mile changes for a while yet. As someone else noted, my used oil gets recycled, so I don't have to feel so bad about it environmentally.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Nov 2 2006, 10:43 AM) [snapback]342533[/snapback]</div>

I use Mobil 1 and change it every 5000 miles, too. It has that used motor oil smell, but it looks pretty clean. I was thinking more about moisture/acids as a problem, due to the frequent on/off cycling, but the UOA that someone posted seemed to have low moisture content. I'll probably just stick with the 5K intervals, that's about twice a year, and roughly the same cost vs. a 10K and a UOA.

 

How on earth did such an innocuous subject trigger such hostile responses, particularly from a single person? *SIGH* I suppose some folks are just looking for controversy. Now children, be nice or you'll have to go stand in the corner.

 

sl7vk, I do used oil analysis at Blackstone Laboratories, as have a few others. Jayman uses a Canadian firm. There are several other labs and I would expect all their results to be quite consistent. There are at least two ways to report viscosity, and different testing procedures for total base number. All the other parameters ought to be done by very similar lab procedures.

I have now paid $10 extra a few times for TBN and have convinced myself that this property holds up OK in Prius with Mobil 1 synthetic for 10k miles (with apologies to galaxee). Therefore I will getting the basic $20 deal unless something important changes.

The only thing I will say about Blackstone in particular is that they do offer a modest 'quantity discount' and by email have told me they wouldn't mind if the samples were submitted from different people. In other words we might pool our resources and save a few bucks.

I am several months away from my next 'oiling', so maybe somebody else would step up as the Prius oil czar?