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Talk to a Cop- The good, bad, and ugly!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Schmika, Feb 21, 2006.

  1. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    so then they will rack up tickets for speeding every single day. how are they only gonna get caught once if the camera sees it every time
     
  2. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    We have beat traffic for a bit and I am going to bring up another topic. Feel free to keep on asking traffic questions.

    The conundrum of Domestic Violence. Ohio has one of the toughest DV laws on the books, bu the tougher they are, the MORE they are abused.

    Police handled SOME DV cases in the past very poorly. BUT, instead of addressing the limited number of cases (in the grand scheme of things), lawmakers took the most egregious cases and made blanket law. Bad cases make bad law...ask any attorney.

    Typical DV laws have provisions that
    1) Make reporting Mandatory (so far so good)
    2) Make issuing of restraining orders Mandatory (OK)
    3) Make enforcing that order MANDATORY (still good)
    4) STRONGLY suggest that arrest is what the officer should do by
    a) specifying that the victions word alone is cause for arrest
    B) giving civil immunity for false arrest if an arrest is made
    c) prohibiting any action against the victim if case is dropped

    Sounds great, doesn't it. Well, here is the result. Well over half of our DV cases are dropped by the victim. A large portion of our DV cases are repeat customers. SOME of our officers, who are very low risk takers (relatively I guess) will arrest the male or female if the other claims any grabbing or hitting w/o ANY supporting evidence and against the suspects denials. Many women will claim any touching is a violation.

    I have NEVER seen a victim, who was obviously abused, NOT get help and an arrest of the abuser. EVEN when the victim denies the abuse or recants or refuses to cooperate (true battered womens syndrome) I see, on a weekly basis, "victims" (primarily women) who make dubious claims of abuse backed up by a reported history of multiple abuses, multiple arrests, and multiple charges dropped.

    Now, before you jump in with battered women's syndrome...I believe in it. I just don't think it is as prevalent as stated, nor the case in EVERY situation. Yet the law is written with that assumption in mind.

    This jumped into my mind because today's paper had an article about a grant to my county to the womens shelter for them to study better ways to help VICTIMS of violence. Does anybody out there know of a program to help women BEfore they become victims? Like, how to choose a mate, how to avaoid losers, etc? It seems to me all the efforts is in "helping" the viction and "beating" the poor schmuck policeman who has the temerity to "infer" that some women are abusing the system.

    Now, that was my opinion, I will now switch back to objective answers to questions.
     
  3. aaf709

    aaf709 Ravenpaw of ThunderClan

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    That happened to me back over the Labor Day weekend. I was driving a friend home late at night and I got pulled over. I had made a wide turn and was going slower (I was trying to up my mileage). He told me about those two, saw I wasn't drunk (we had spent the day making a shed and were tired) and let me go. Didn't even ask me to step outside. Scared the willies out of me, though.
     
  4. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    What, they can't just take a different route? You propose an unlimited number of cameras in the many streets in my city alone? Flareak, I repeat, you are letting theory distrort the practical side of this.

    I AGREE your idea has merit....it is not a panacea. I also suspect it would not be supported, in the beginning, by the majority of the populace. People want police because they will USUALLY listen and SOMETIMES give them a break. A robot camera will not. People really don't want an ABSOLUTE level and objective playing field.....just for everyone but themselves.
     
  5. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    I look for the day when being pulled over does not do this. Let me ask a question of everyone. When you are "scared". are you always thinking clearly? If you are scared, don't assume your version of what happened is the most accurate. I just about guarantee you the officer is not scared, is calm, has been doing this many many times, and is trained to observe. Just a thought.
     
  6. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    I haven't read all the posts yet but some of them seem to indicate irritation over being stopped for incidentials, ie. light out, weaving, sticker or frame around a lic plate. Far as I'm concerned I love it when the cops do that because thats how they got McVeigh and many,many DUI's, and other criminals. Keep it up Officers, just don't pull me over please.

    Wildkow
     
  7. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    DV is a nasty thing. denial, codependence, all that complex sociopsychological stuff comes into play real quick.

    what gets me the most is how such a large percentage of cases that are taken to court go in as a felony and get knocked down to a misdemeanor for one reason or another.

    Wth is that about???

    i think the first time, teach the abuser a lesson they won't forget. something serious makes for serious jail time. no huber law. just your nice person in a jail cell for a few months to think that over. then, the abusee has time to go through counseling and realize they don't need the abuser in their life.
     
  8. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    Having grown up in Connecticut, I can assure you, you were pulled over for just what you suspected: DWB. That, and the fact that you were "putting" along in the slow lane (even given the weather) on an empty highway gives the impression that you're going out of your way to NOT get pulled over.

    CT is one of those States with A LOT of wealthy communities, chances are, you got pulled over on a stretch of highway that went through one. The simple fact the cop mentioned "New Haven" makes me believe it even more, for there are really only two major cities where you can drive on the highways late at night, while black, and not be suspicious: around Hartford, and around New Haven. There are some other spots, but pretty much anywhere other than those major population centers, your chances of getting pulled over go through the roof if you're black.

    My friends and I (one of whom was black (he was actually the only black kid to attend my high school, even so it was for only one year)) used to joke that it would be almost impossible to make it across the State, from Rhode Island to NY, without getting pulled over if you were black, and driving, let's say, a late model Mercedes...
     
  9. aaf709

    aaf709 Ravenpaw of ThunderClan

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    You're right. I don't get pulled over that much. My friend was actually telling me things like "Don't get out, just wait for him to ask," and "Don't reach over for your resgistration until they ask." Obviously I wasn't aware of my wide turn that time. Just glad it wasn't worse.
     
  10. mikepaul

    mikepaul Senior Member

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    It bothers me that some police seem to pull people over on a whim, with some arcane or non-existant law to use to justify it when the hunch that they thought would get them promoted doesn't pan out.

    Applauding them when they randomly pick up a big-time offender among the innocents will just encourage them to bust down the wrong door a few extra times, in case something other than a door repair-bill results...
     
  11. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    But if you take some of your most dangerous areas that need a bit more enforcement which would make it safer.. say a place where there are pedestrians or a school nearby.

    I did not suggest an unlimited amount of cameras. I think you're taking my words on a much larger scale than I intended. We were on the subject of cameras and I was merely suggesting how this would help in areas that needed it. If you are truly concerned about a school zone that has a high record of problems regarding speeding and safety, why not use it if it makes that area safer?
     
  12. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    :eek: Hmmmm, my kneejerk reaction was to say "Both of those points are so ludicrous I'm not going to comment." but on second thought I'd like to ask why or how you came up with the idea that they stop people on a whim in order to get a big bust for promotional consideration. Secondly I was talking about automobiles and not homes a horse of a different color according to the Supreme Court.


    Wildkow
     
  13. aaf709

    aaf709 Ravenpaw of ThunderClan

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    As a San Diegan I know about Cara Knott and you wonder sometimes. Fortunately those are few and far between.
     
  14. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    A couple of years ago a district attorney was killed near Five Points (we have the National Advocacy Center here in town where all of the DAs are trained), and another one badly wounded. The mother of the 2 suspects was stopped the next day for a broken taillight. When the officer ran the plates he saw that it was wanted in connection to the murder. Now the 2 kids are sitting on death row. Bravo to that cop for stopping her for a broken taillight.
     
  15. Trevor

    Trevor Member

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    Huh, I don't understand what you think I've misrepresented? I stated that I got a hand written warning on a plain piece of yellow paper. I have never received any other written warnings, but I figured there would at least be some sort of form. I just didn't see what the point for writing it down was. I couldn't read his handwriting, so the verbal statement meant a lot more than a piece of paper.

    I only realized that I didn't state the race of the officer is when Schmika assumed from that the officer was white (in this case he was). I don't think that matters. I was not accusing this cop of being racist. I was accusing this cop of being suspicious of me and pulling me over without reason a valid reason. I think he came up with the plate thing after the stop. If any cop pulls me over and I don't think that they had reason, I would want to know why... which is why I asked my question so that I could get an officers opinion on reasons why, so that if if happens again I would know what the police procedure for such things are.

    The bottom line is that I responded to this thread because it was a unique opportunity for me to "Talk to a Cop". At this point Schmika's feedback is all that matters to me. Feel free to continue to accuse me of whatever you want.
     
  16. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid Junior Member

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    Actually, here's a provocative question for the Officer of the House:

    How does one (and where does one) go about making a complaint against an officer such that there will be some sort of meaningful result? There MUST be some channel, some entity you can go to, and file a well written complaint if it is warranted.

    On another note, if Officers can video/audio tape you without your permission, can you video/audio tape the officer without him/her knowing during the "pull over"?
     
  17. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    Same reason over 1/2 get dismissed or dropped. Victim falls back in "love" with the abuser. Will not cooperate. Realize, the victim is usually the only witness, if they recant or change their story, what are you going to do? Yes, sometimes (rarely) the abuser threatens the victim. Yes, sometimes the police/prosecutor is unsympathetic and the victiom gets fed up (again, rarely)

    Here is the problem Galaxee, if EVERY person accused of DV was jailed...well there aren't enough jails. My vote...separate the serious abusers and lock them up...the rest need mandatory divorce. I mean, c'mon, if you charge your spouse with DV, WHY would you stay married?
     
  18. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    Is it much of a burden to know EVERYTHING? Just wanted to know.....
     
  19. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    There has to be a law or it is an illegal stop. Arcane???By whose definition. Where did being promoted come into play? Mikepaul, your bias is showing.
     
  20. Schmika

    Schmika New Member

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    Ahhh, I see. Well, you are very correct on this then.