Sudden Acceleration Verdict Is in - its not a electronic issue

Are you seriously saying you think a 2007 Camry and a Gen 3 Prius have similar control systems?

2007 Camry:
One gas engine
Hydraulic brakes
One 12V battery
5 speed automatic transmission

2010 Prius:
One gas engine
Two electric motor/generators
Electronic brake stroke simulation for 93% of the braking
Hydraulic brakes for 7% of the braking, also serves as failsafe
Regenerative braking system
One 12V battery
240 NiMh cells @ 200V
ECVT transmission

I feel like I'm talking to a 5 year old.

 

Here are a couple more graphs showing the timeline of Toyota UA complaints filed to NHTSA, taken from this week's official reports.

 

I didn't own a Toyota at the time so I didn't pay much attention to the coverage. And I bought a Prius because I thought the unintended acceleration complaints were extremely rare cases of driver error. That changed when a personal friend experienced unintended acceleration in his 2010 Prius. And the NHTSA complaint list changed my view on the rarity of the complaints. Reading the detailed accounts of the unintended acceleration complaints changed my view on the sincerity of the complaints.

Your views may differ. That doesn't make me a Troll. It makes me a concerned driver. I was concerned enough to sell my Prius at a loss and buy another brand of car.

 

How much of this list is relevant to the ETCS-i?

 

It turned you into a fool, who is now trying to justify past actions.

/end of thread for me.

 

So fuzzy, why do you think so many people filed complaints right after the publicity? I'd like to hear your opinion on the percentage of each category:

Scams/flat-out lies from non-Toyota owners
Driver error followed by a lie to cover up their mistake
Driver error followed by a lack of knowledge of what really happened
Legitimate unintended acceleration caused by electronic/mechanical malfunction

 

I've never owned an Audi, yet remember more of that coverage from a quarter century ago.

My view of UA was changed by first hand experience with it, in my 1986 Honda Accord.

I have never called you a troll.

Do you have any evidence that your other brand / model of car is at less risk from UA? I'd like to see it.

 

You tell me. What items on that list are not integrated into the throttle control system on the Prius?

 

I elect to not co-opt the official investigators on this. Their staff writes better than I do.

Oh, you missed one of there categories.

 

Different time. I remember the Apollo moon landings from 40+ years ago clearly but I didn't pay any attention to the Mars Rover. Media bombardment has forced most of us to filter what we're exposed to. I filtered out the Toyota problems because I didn't own a Toyota.

Does that mean it can't happen?

Thanks. You're one of the more level-headed people on the forum.

The data I posted from Edmunds research indicates that Toyotas have 10X the unintended acceleration complaints compared to Hondas. Similar sales volume between the two brands, acknowledging that Toyota has higher sales right now. Similar drivetrain complexity on competing vehicles. The current generation Camry has a much higher number of UA complaints than the current generation Accord. Factoring in the questionable driving skill and intelligence of Toyota owner makes it complicated.

 

Life critical safety systems tend to be isolated as much as possible, not integrated, to minimize cascading failures.

 

Fully answered in your previous (now locked) UA thread.

Then you probably also filtered out a considerable amount of the publicized research over the past quarter century into this common phenomena.

Toyota's complaint rate, which did not rise when ETC was introduced, did spike from publicity about the 2004 investigation, and never returned to the prior baseline. As the Audi fiasco showed, even when nothing is found, the brand can suffer the damage for a very long time.

And for reasons pointed out in one this week's reports, intrinsic flaws and limitations in the databases don't allow you to meaningfully make that 10X claim.

 

Which of those items do you think are isolated from the throttle control system on a Prius?

 

Yep, but if the publicized research was so conclusive why are they still studying the problem? Including the ongoing National Academy of Sciences study.

They did find problems with the Audi's. The pedal spacing and pedal sizes were changed based on what they found. And they used their findings to develop a brake override system to help prevent UA problems. Have you looked into how many UA complaints Audi has had recently?

Sounds like you're saying the data is meaningless if I make a claim, yet it's meaningful if someone uses the data to make claims against unintended acceleration.

 

Don't know. But from NHTSA sees jump in Toyota complaints - USATODAY.com and many other stories, even NHTSA says something along these lines:

 

I think the orange thingamabobs and the yellow whatchamacallits

 

So says a proponent of junk science (research by Gilbert, Ronald Belt and Quality Control Systems Corporation).

Do you actually think the National Academy of Sciences would just drop their ongoing investigation just because the NHTSA and NASA published their findings?

 

Pretty much says it all. Article at CNN.com.

Anyone looking for absolute conclusive evidence that UA problems lies with the electronics will NEVER be satisfied. The human factor (driver) is by the widest margin the largest unknown variable component when the vehicle is in operation. eek: - it just can't be!) Therefore considering the actual physical evidence found and documented, it's not unreasonable to conclude that driver error is the major cause of UA, along with sticky gas pedals and floor-mats as secondary causes.

For those who don't/can't accept that, please keep researching this on your own and report back to us when you have found the evidence required that meet your standards of believability - doubts and opinions of inconclusivity are not acceptable, only physical evidence that meets the same standards as the physical evidence already presented about UA. Maybe you can start by applying to NASA to see if they'll accept you for a research position based on your highly accredited credentials!

I can probably state for the majority after reading all the crap being slung back and forth, no one is convincing anyone here to change their opinion.

 

trust me, when the nas concludes there is nothing wrong with toyota electronics, evpv will find another reason why he never meant what he said and how they didn't do the study the way he told them to do it.

 

Thx for the article. Good summary of the potential human error factors. I would add the efficiency displays as another potential distraction for drivers. Lots of good related links at the bottom of the article as well.

I would be satisfied if a footwell video camera showed the drivers foot on the brake while the car is accelerating. Or if a footwell video camera showed the drivers foot on the gas while they claimed unintended acceleration.

Alas, the NASA study gives Toyota a great excuse to stop analyzing unintended acceleration. The dealers and Toyota corporate will just point to the NASA results and tell you to go away. Sucks to be a Toyota owner if UA ever happens to you.