substantiated rumors of gen 4 production

Lots of PR... Companies never slow down, if you slow down, you are overtaken. But they gave more quality review time for new products coming to the market. You can see it on all of their new cars.

Toyota is the largest manufacturer in the world, with highest spending in R&D and they have to push out most models...

 

they started 3rd shift last month and voila - Corolla best selling compact on the market, as I told austin it will be once its availability improves

 

I agree.

But Toyota themselves- "Akio Toyoda"- cited rapid expansion in a push to become the world largest auto manufacturer as a potential reason for some of the problems they faced.

To me? If you look back over the 70's, 80's even early 90's...The Japanese automakers did something slightly different than American Automakers at that time.

American automakers usually significantly changed or updated their vehicles every few years. In the late 60's early 70's...a span of 3 years, could mean a huge difference between a vehicle with the same name...it was rapid change.

Japanese automakers through the same period were much more conservative. Change in a model line came much slower. And if it worked? They kept it.

I think that's what eventually led to the success and reputation for long term quality that helped Toyota and Honda rise to great heights.

My fear or concern, is that now ontop, is Toyota becoming the very animal that it once hunted, with the same strengths...but also the same weaknesses?

 

Maybe 'quality in quantity' would be more accurate.

 

Quite true, but you have to put his comments in cultural and corporate context. Toyoda e.g. apologized to the US congress for problems with Prius brakes, even though he knew, we (Prius owners) knew, and later everybody else nothing was wrong with them. Most americans cannot parse Toyota 'speak, in which customer dissatisfaction *is* a problem Toyota takes ownership of, even if the problem is the consumer ignorance or FUD.

Quality decreased at Toyota for a while. They went from being the perennial Yankees of baseball to just another play-off team. Meanwhile Ford won the minors, and GM continues to be my local Albuquerque team, toiling in quality obscurity.

 

Hi all--

As a heads up, I may be opening up a big can of worms here.

I'm leery of buying any vehicle, regardless of what make or model is, if the VIN number begins with "1".

I don't know the cause, rhyme, or reason (and I'm not going to level any accusations because I'd be hitting a hornet's nest), but it seems that vehicles made here in the States are much more likely to be... rubbish. It runs across brand names and lines. I had the misfortune of driving an '05 Cavalier a while back and it was probably the worst car I've driven in my entire life. (It was made at the Lordstown assembly plant in Ohio.)

A quick scan of Car Complaints reveals a truly outsized number of complaints for supposedly-"reliable" Japanese cars just because they had the brand name. But look at the 2001-present Honda Accord, which is filled with transmission and brakes horror stories. (1,192 brakes stories from the 2008 Accord alone). Scores of transmission failure stories out there, as well. Where's the Accord made, at least the North American version? Marysville, Ohio.

Or the 2007 Camry's burning excessive amounts of oil. Complaints continue about poor paint jobs, etc. Where's the Camry made? Georgetown, Kentucky.

The Prius, on the other hand, has a tiny fraction of the number of complaints and issues. Of the 2005-2009 Prius, I'd wager that 70% of the complaints on that website are HID-related. (God, I'm glad mine doesn't have HID's.) Tell me again where the Prius is built.

Same thing with the Yaris, which has comparatively superior reliability to the Corolla/Camry even after accounting for lower sales during those model years.

Maybe I'm cherrypicking, but I can pick some more examples.

From time to time you'll see a late 80's/early 90's model Geo Metro puttering around on its' three-cylinder engine. That's because a Metro is actually a rebadged Suzuki. When's the last time you saw a Chevy Corsica (circa 1994) in running condition?

Point is, I - given my experience with both types of cars, and having watched so many friends and associates be stuck with car-repair hell - would be extremely leery of buying any vehicle made here in the States.

 

If the transmissions hadn't been US made since 1997, there might have been something there with it being an American made problem. Civic Si's have also had problems, and their tranny can be coming from Indonesia or even Japan. Honda deciding a transmission designed for the power of a 4 cylinder would be fine behind a more powerful is just as likely a cause for the problems.

If one took the time to dig through the gen2 threads, you would find numerous complaints and TSBs. Mine had the loose trim piece on the exterior door B pillar, that was threatening to blow off. I think the little PSD cover (IIRC,been awhile) was also on backwards. Luckily for me, the nearby wire harness was lying away from it, but it did get cut through by the cover piece on other cars.

If there are problems at a factory, it is corporate's responsibility to fix it. It's their name on the product, and they should of done a better job of instilling their priorities to quality.

 

HCCI if they can do it reliably, or an optimized Atkinson with a longer stroke but narrow tubes, direct injection instead of Multiport Fuel Injection, perhaps turbocharging.
I'd say 60MPG highway is the high point every possible on a piston type engine. At that efficiency you're at the efficiency of a diesel.
Carnot cycle after that?

Hopefully in 2015 they'll have a plug-in version of the V and C and a bit longer range for the V and regular, a J1772 plug for quick charging on long road trips.

 

Just current Prius with 10 mile EV capability without plug in, more efficient and powerful batteries would get them to 60-70 mpg. That's three years from now.

 

But the engine will need to run the generator to charge the battery eventually. I don't think it would help the hwy or city EPA cycle much. I know the current Prius can do maybe a mile on EV mode and longer would be better. Bigger batteries are definitely helpful if going down a mountain for regen.

 

More efficient batteries not bigger physically. They waste less of the input so receive and store more electricity with same engine input. 10 miles on pure EV without plug-in and we get 70-80 mpg for the average commuter.

 

how do you get 10 miles of EV without plugin?

 

4th generation batteries that more efficiently take a charge and more efficiently hold and deliver more energy.