Featured SPOTTED! *UNWRAPPED* 2016 Prius spotted this morning!

The rate is to identify whether or not a business-sustaining vehicle is meeting minimum expectations. Their high-volume sales are what deliver profit to pay the bills.

Sport cars are neither business-sustaining nor high-volume. Ordinary cars like Camry, Corolla, Accord, Cruze, Malibu, Cruze, Fusion, Focus, etc. what you measure the "mainstream" criteria against. Doing that for a sports car misses the point.

 

If that were so, then Toyota would have to sell 3 Prii for every Tundra, and both companies would be screwed.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That has the CAFE targets up to 2025 for cars and light trucks.

Of the current 4WD pick ups with the largest engine, the Tundra misses to CAFE target by the most; it is 3mpg under the current target. GM's under the target by 1mpg. Both sell more fuel efficient 'trucks', SUVs, crossovers, minivans, and a few wagon/hatchbacks to average their truck CAFE up. Then they can trade credits from their car fleets. They even can bank credits for up to 5 years. GM just sells a whole lot more pick ups without a MPG champ like the Prius. So they might have to buy credits from another manufacturer. Which is probably a net gain for them if the trucks did really well for a year.

Considering the Prius and where their over all vehicle sales are, Toyota may probably be fine leaving the Tundra and Sequoia as FSP from a credit and fine stand point.

Since the F150 is the number one selling vehicle, have to mention Ford. Their V8 4WD has the same fuel economy as the GM's example truck. With the 3.5L Ecoboost, over half of F150s sold have a V6. That truck meets CAFE targets up to 2021.
Compare Side-by-Side

 

Yikes, that's some crazy stuff. You might know, Trollbait, the government is behind this mess. How about Volkswagen not signing the agreement? At least, they stood up to the Obama Administration.

Granted, CAFE should have went up but 54.5 m.p.g.? We will all be driving electric, hybrid or some other alternative fuel vehicles.

I am not saying that the number can't be met. It will be tough, indeed. So, if they don't meet the goal, they pay the govt. a penalty or buy credits.

No wonder Toyota is going toward hybrid and hydrogen. Ford and the aluminum pickup for less weight and better fuel economy. GM and their bear attacking a guy and giving him a choice of a steel or aluminum cage. GM is secretly working on an aluminum pickup, also.

My brother worked for Delphi Electronics. He developed a plastic case radio to use in many different vehicles. The old school engineering guys said it will sink the company. He made it and it worked, then went on to develop the case that could be made from one piece of plastic that could be folded around the radio chassis. At last count, he had over thirty patents. He was motivated to lose the weight of the radio. Total loss was about a pound.

Great find sir, thanks. Now I wonder what Gen Four weighs?

 

The American Automobile Market is nothing more than a marionette, with the EPA gooberment pulling each/all the manufacturer's strings.

 

And the manufacturers pulling the strings of the EPA and Government.

 

So is the European market...and the Chinese so what is exactly the abnormality of the Japanese market?
Furthermore, Prius (and Aqua) are not the only domestic cars in Japan, no head-start for Prius.

 

...more like suckling from the DOT/EPA mandatory compliance vehicle "teats."

 

keep in mind that this uses the old-school EPA tests, and the unadjusted values from that. so 54.5 mpg average for CAFE is probably more like 30 mpg average on current EPA stickers.

 

wow, i didn't realize such a trivial claim ("not mainstream") would cause such a sh!tshow, but here we go, allow me to re-quote john from page 47 to make it clear what i'm talking about.

in response to me saying that the fuel efficiency improvements on the Gen 4 were nothing to write home about (at best 10% combined), John replied:

This was my beef. That supposedly the Gen 4 is targeted at people who don't care about fuel consumption and that the changes that were presented are designed to draw in a new audience and bring it further into the mainstream.

This is pure and unadulterated BS. People who buy this car primarily care about fuel economy, period. If that wasn't the case and the car was actually mainstream, you would see much higher sales. If we're saying that the Gen 4 will somehow change that, and suddenly attract other kinds of buyers, I'm not exactly sure what it is exactly about the Gen 4 that's going to drive that change. An ugly rear end?

Holy Jesus, are you going to bring that up in literally every single thread I reply to? It's getting kind of old honestly. Btw, my Plug-in Prius is sitting in the garage and hasn't been driven in 3 months. Want to take it off my hands? It's got green stickers on it even.

US, seeing as that's the largest market for Prius sales. Wrangler moved 175k units in 2014; Prius moved 122k. See Jeep Wrangler Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR. Should we look at Brazil instead?

[citation needed]

no actually it's based on 3 data points, sales in 2013, 2014, and 2015 so far.

 

the point was that you can't say "look Prius is #1 in Japan!!" and then somehow translate that to "Prius is mainstream!" the desire to buy domestic is there everywhere, that's why when talking about "mainstream" globally it's disingenuous to pick the domestic market and claim that this somehow relates to the rest of the world, because it doesn't.

 

^ Now you are contradicting your own statement that the Japanese market is abnormal. My question remains: what exactly is abnormal there?

 

My quote above was a reply to Trollbait regarding total sales of hybrids. No connection to your original statement about the prospects of the Ge 4 Prius. I really do not understand why you bundled it in your post above.
According to Toyota press release (on which my chart in post #993 was based):
5th million was achieved (March 13) in 11 months.
6th millions was achieved (December 13) in 9 months.
7th millions was achieved (September 14) in 9 months.

To me, this is shooting right up, no signs of a start of a plateau.

8th millions was achieved (July 15) in 10 months. A slight slowdown I was referring to as one data point.

 

It's abnormal to take the Prius position in that market and claim that it's representative of the world, because the numbers show that it isn't.

 

Lensovet, you have a Plug-in Prius you haven't driven in three months? What's the problem? That's a crying shame. Don't like the PiP anymore? Please enlighten us.

 

, You are driving a compliance vehicle! At 40kWh/100 miles, M-B e is not exactly the most efficient ev out there. $1.97 for RUG and 12 cent KWh here, and regular Prius usually does > 50.

 

It is my understanding that Japan is currently the largest market for Prius sales. It is also my understanding that Toyota is designing the Prius for a GLOBAL marketplace, not just the US. My point is that your arbitrary definition of "mainstream" (and you have never given us your definition) depends on what you are comparing to.
Hey, I don't want to fight, just trying to understand where you are coming from. In fact I am an "Old Blue" and a former resident of your fair city on College street back in the "good ol' days"!

 

Your calculation is site specific. Lensovet lives in an area where RUG is over $3/g. I don't know what his electric rate is and therefore his MBe may, in fact, be more efficient in your example. The other thing is that you really should be comparing the MBe to the PIP. Right now I am getting 72 mpg over the last several thousand miles (which is not unusual for many PIP drivers). My range is 700+ miles. I pay nothing to recharge since I have PV on my roof with excess capacity. Regardless of the price of RUG, my PIP will beat the pants off his MBe any day!

 

You are right, but I used the regular Prius to show that at about $2.00 a gallon, a regular Prius cost about the same to operate as charging. Use this link and click below: "Personalize", enter KWh rate and gas prices in your area zip code.

Compare Side-by-Side
USA National Gas Price Heat Map - GasBuddy.com

 

What lensovet is driving these days is irrelevant to the discussion here.
If I remember correctly, when he changed to the Mercedes he reported that he was not shopping for the most efficient car. I hope it suits his needs and fulfills his expectations.