Featured SPOTTED! *UNWRAPPED* 2016 Prius spotted this morning!

he'll be sleeping in the porsche soon enough, but at least he'll be able to see the stars.

 

granted, but the quote was 'hybrids', not prius.

 

I wondered the same thing, bisco. He also has two different women that visit him with two Honda Accords.

I go on walks around the neighborhood. My legs need the exercise and so does tje dog. I have seen things that I am not looking for but just happen in front of me. Its a middle-class, bedroom community of around two hundred homes.

The neighborhood has changed drastically since the original owners sold and moved on. Lots of kids, old folks, and the rest. It is like I'm invisible,almost as stealthy as a Prius. Its quiet and calm here living on the retention pond.

 

By your definition, how many units does a model have to sell and in what geographical area for it to be considered mainstream? otherwise we are just blowing smoke.

 

right? the definition is subjective. one mans niche is another mans commodity.

 

The widely-accepted definition, in this market for well over a decade, has been 60,000 annual sales.

That's a rate of 5,000 sales per month.

 

Good question, sir. Mainstream in Indiana may not be the same as mainstream in California, Florida or New Jersey. Demographics, population density, affluence and even weather could change what is mainstream. I read somewhere that Subarus are very popular in the New England states. I would also bet they don't sell 200k units.

To be mainstream is hard to define. 50k to 200k may be an answer. Or with Ford Trucks are very mainstream, they're practically everywhere.

Around here it seems to be an older Ram pickup with a Cummins Diesel and the exhaust pipe in the pickup bed. They bypass the fuel pressure so that it puts out a great amount of smoke. "Rollin' coal" is their big thrill.

Again mainstream could be simple as a high concentration of people that like the Tesla. Then the mainstream would be Tesla. Now nationally, it would be different and if we looked globally it would be different again.

I might add that if you sell 10000 cars you probably have done something right. If you sell 100000 cars you have hit a nerve. If you sell close to a million cars, you have definitely found mainstream.
What shocked me is what that sales chart shows cars that one would think sold a whole lot more really didn't.

 

Well, according to the stats above, Prius sold about 70,000 units in the first 6 months of 2015 in North America alone. And according to John's definition the Prius is not only mainstream globally but also in North America! That makes the Prius anything but a "niche car" just about anywhere. End of argument, discussion over, nothing more to see, move on.

 

I thought: "Look who's talking" these posters calling "Niche" are driving compliance cars from this list: Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

I posted this in Hybrid Dashboard Summary
Japan August 2015 Sales / ytd
#1 Toyota Aqua - 12,390 / ytd - 151,341
#2 Toyota Sienta - 7,736 / ytd - 15,113 (2 months)
#3 Toyota Corolla - 7,715 / ytd - 73,991
#4 Honda Fit/Jazz - 6,765 / ytd - 85,721
#5 Toyota Prius - 6,618 / ytd - 87,438

 

I have to admit, I have been a bit harsh in my initial feedback with regard to how Prius Gen4 looks and we have seen several other PCers reflecting similar sentiments.

However, you've got to hand it to Toyota for taking a bold step with the design of Gen4. After all, it was Toyota themselves who came up with NS4 so we know they are capable of great looking designs. Then there are some us who say Gen3 looks better and some others say Gen2 is better etc. but think for a minute how many of us would have gone for a Gen4 if it looked very similar to Gen3. Not many I would think. As someone here once noted, the Prius is a purpose driven car - most of its exterior design elements will have a solid technical reason behind it. Now we can chose to go on and on criticizing its looks knowing it will make no difference at all, or we can move on to analyzing the Gen4's overall achievements. I would think the latter option would be a better use of time spent here really?

As for those who are predicting the downfall of Gen4 and Toyota here, I would not bother - not worth the brain cycles spent trying to convince anyone anything about the future really. Time will tell, sales numbers will answer the critics.

Now back to Gen4, the Frankfurt Motor Show 2015 is just hours away. How many variants of Gen4 do you predict. I think there will be 2 non-plugins and 1 plugin

1. Prius Standard ECO
2. Prius Touring with Li-ION
3. Prius Prime Plugin

Any thoughts ?

 

I think the Gen4 might attract some new buyers with the new styling, or at least look. While I liked the Gen3 styling over the Gen3, to me, it was just a new Prius, no need to look. It took many years for me to seriously look at the Prius, and it took the cargo room of the v to get me to consider it. Frankly, there's a ton of competition in the price ranges we're looking at. Now, the media will have a chance to look at a fresh new one. Weird, but many people that see my car end up saying "Oh, that's a Prius?"

It's quite a lineup now, the c hatchback and the v. At the end of the day, cars are a very expensive necessity. Great fuel economy does not compensate much for high price. I think the sales for all Prius are extremely good given the market they're competing in. An older couple we know just bought a brand new Ford Focus SE hatchback. They paid around 20k out the door. Nice car with decent room and utility, and a low price point. The younger folks are looking for cool and sporty just as I used to 100 years ago Kia and Hyundai have attacked that market well.

I've never been adverse to hatchback styling, owning several over the years. But many don't like them, which is one reason they nearly vanished from the market for quite awhile.

I don't think having the three versions,
1. Prius Standard ECO
2. Prius Touring with Li-ION
3. Prius Prime Plugin
is all that important except to those really diehard Prius fans. Not a negative at all, just not a huge draw. What will draw more lookers is if the Gen4 receives some good press regarding how it drives, interior layout, handling, etc.. The broad market always thought that eventually, you'd have to look at a badge or something to determine it was a hybrid. One lap around the block was all they needed before. I knew it was possible the first time I drove a CMAX. Although I hated the bulbous styling, I loved most everything else, (except cargo room). It was fun to drive! Not sluggish, not devoid of feel, and the interior was really nice.

If Gen4 can deliver on those items, it
ill be a real winner.

 

I do have a smartphone(my daughter's got it for me)and the only reason why I know what I had for breakfast is its the same almost everyday. Now and then she takes me out for breakfast. But then there's hard work on the horizon.

Getting old sucks but its better than the alternative. Getting old it ain't for sissies.

 

My thoughts are we will see this:

1. Prius Liftback Standard
2. Prius Liftback Eco
And at a later date:
3. Prius Liftback Plug-in
And as a variant at an even later date:
4. Prius Liftback Touring

Subject to change without notice, void where prohibited by law.

 

Are you speaking aerodynamic looks, or actual aerodynamics? The new Sonata hybrid Sonata matches or bests the gen3 Prius cd value, and it looks like all the other mid-size sedans available.

I've heard the gen1 designers wanted to do a sedanish hatchback originally. Hatches are more popular in Japan, and that is the Prius's initial target market. The four door sedan seems to be only traditional in the US.

But hybrid is a drive train in a range of vehicle types. If you want to use their share of the market in order to declare them mainstream, the proper comparison is to gas ICE vehicles. Not all the hybrid sedans, hatchbacks, SUVs, and sports cars, whether small, mid-size, or large, to just a single ICE car model.

Here is where we run into the flexibility of the mainstream term. When I hear mainstream, I think most common. For a car model to be mainstream, it would have to be in the majority of sales or random sampling on the road. Those arguing for hybrids being mainstream appear to take it to mean simply no longer niche.

5000 sales a month or 60k a year is a good, hard definition to use, but it isn't without fault. By it, the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger are mainstream. Now be honest, when you have heard or saw a sports car, did ever link it to mainstream. There is also the Prius c. It isn't mainstream by this definition. Yet it is outselling its ICE sibling, the Yaris, and it is middle of the pack in its size segment sales. Subcompacts are just a smaller segment of the market. Within it, I wouldn't call the Prius c niche, and the top sellers in the segment are mainstream by sales.

And who has actually said that the Prius and Toyota were heading for downfall?
What was said is that hybrid, non-plug in, sales were slowing and heading to a plateau. That just means any rapid sales growth like was seen with the gen2 into the gen3 isn't likely. Nothing there about losing sales.

 

i don't want to compare anything. i'm just quoting the poster who thinks 'hybrids' are a niche product. you can take it up with him.

i have always considered mustangs and corvettes mainstream. not by sales numbers, but by longevity and popularity. you can use whatever definition you want, or you can use webster, which is still subject to interpretation.

 

i don't think we'll see plug in this year, even as a prototype.

 

I agree with him. I don't think the Prius is niche car within segment it is usually is grouped with, but as a whole, hybrids are still a small part of the market. They are more accepted now, but being accepted doesn't equate to selling well. Expanding the selection of available hybrid models will help with the sales, but as long as there is an ICE version available that gets decent fuel economy, the majority will opt for the ICE.

That is until rising CAFE standards push the majority of car models to hybridization. How long they have the spot light then depends on where plug ins are at in terms of cost and performance.

Which is why it is best to avoid the term in such discussions.

 

Trollbait, I hear what you are saying. Imdeed, hybrid sales may lag and I would say that it is expected. As the price of gasoline continues to fall, hybrid sales will fall, also.

When I was speaking of aerodynamics, I was not meaning actual aerodynamics. Yes, the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid does have an excellent Cd rating and it does look fairly conventional.

When I said the Gen 4 would have to lose it's tear drop or Mirai like shape to gain customers. If I am not mistaken, Toyota already makes a Corolla (or very similar to the Corolla) hybrid. If that car did appear, I would be afraid it would take sales from Prius.

So Toyota will continue its proliferation of hybrids throughout its product line. We may not see all the products as some may not be mainstream enough to warrant sending them through the strenuous crash, emissions and other testing to make the cars US saleable. No, they will not be niche or compliance cars.

Aero cars do not appeal to everyone. One only has to look at a Citröen DS or ID. Very aerodynamic for 1955 and with one major revision in 1968 they sold the same aero shape for twenty years. But some folks said it was the ugliest thing they had ever seen.

I like the appearance of Gen 4, it is polarizing again. Some folks like it and some hate it already. I want to drive it and see how it handles and what does it feel like on the road.

 

I don't think you can draw this conclusion based on a single data point, slight slow down this year can be a result of temporary (but significant) noise like prices of gas and/or Gen 3 Prius (a dominant member in the group) at the final stage of its life etc. We need much more time to see if there is a change in trend.
Jumping into conclusions like this based on single data point is standing IMO on one (crippled) leg only - your wish.

 

Oh my when the Corporate Average Fuel Economy goes up, I believe we most certainly will see more "compliance" cars.

I read that for every large displacement truck Chevrolet sells, they have to move three Spark vehicles. This is to offset the fuel economy difference so that GM, hopefully, will not have to pay a penalty for selling trucks.

Didn't GM buying fuel economy credits from Honda a few years back? Now that is some strange things for sure. No wonder Toyota tried to sell the iQ, its economy was fine.

This is also the reason Daimler (Mercedes) Benz continues to market the Smart. The true always sounds like fiction.