Some insider notes on the 2017 Prius Prime

For those metrically challenged, it's 2.2 lb/ kg.

 

that's a lot of weight in the prime, maybe they should have removed the rear seats completely.

 

@Tideland Prius, Q. I wonder if the interior of the Prius Prime will shake things up a bit, offer Softex seats & door trims in these Prime colors! Interior of my '07 Camry and current Prius is: Bisque/Beige!

Picture 30 - First Drive: 2016 Toyota RAV4 & RAV4 Hybrid [Review]

 

sharp!

 

Same question here.

 

Hi all, been a while since I have checked in, now that I have the Leaf, but here I am!
Maybe I have been detoxed of the Prius Kool Aid, but I did find this thread very interesting, until....!
.... 8 kWh Battery, 31 EV miles, really?? That's the best Toyota could do, 31?? It's barely 1/2 a VOLT! It has way too small of a battery! Double it, 16kW, 50 miles! Make it a two seater if you have to, but 31 miles, really, why bother...
Fusion Titanium, with it's "killer" 7.8 kW battery is even worse, with a whopping "about 19 miles of driving after a full charge" Queen Mary berthing issues I assume!. As stated, the Volt with its 18.4kWh battery, does 51, "EV" miles, it's a good start ...ish!!
BTW, you know, after driving a Leaf for 10 months, with a battery that's in remarkably great shape for a 2014, I figured out paper EV miles, and real world Ev miles, and not flat Kansas miles, are all quite different! That lesson took less than 3 days to sink in! Thankfully, I can live with the range, and have a plethora of EV charging stations, both HV, & Level II at my disposal! So my paper range is 84 miles with a 24 kWh battery! In the Foothills I live in, I really get about 65-70 EV miles, tops! I of course Hypermile at all times, just to stick another EV mile or 10 back in the battery as I navigate the hills & wilds of LA!
So I would estimate that the new Prius PHEV would actually have about 23 ish real miles! That's sad, just sad!
I was at first quite interested, but those EV miles killed it for me! I bet the price will rival a Volt too, if so, as stated, why bother!

 

Clueless? Uncaring? Smug?

We have to ask why some EV owners are turning their backs on the mainstream market by being so unsupportive. How does such an attitude help?

More isn't necessarily better. Look no further than Volt sales took see that a longer EV range does not equate increased sales.

A smaller pack is what will reach ordinary buyers, attracting showroom shoppers. That's an appeal problem with EV choices currently. Ask how will the market grow beyond enthusiasts.

Toyota is attempting to reach those interested in EV driving but unwilling to take a major step yet. They'll get an extremely clean & efficient choice offering a plug that's capable of directly competing with traditional vehicles.

Think about the challenges faced at dealerships. Think about inventory, commission, and profit. Think about the knowledge required.

 

As noted, I have detoxed from the Kool-Aid.

Clueless? Uncaring? Smug? No, realistic, realistic, and ever more, realistic!
Shoving this piece of crap on the world is what further reduces common folks from walking the EV path! I at least have a knowledge of what the real world of EV is, and if I did not live in LA, with it's abundance of HV & Level II stations, I would not have considered the Leaf. If I wanted a gas car, I would have kept the Gen II! It worked just fine, but after 8 years, I moved on.
BTW, enthusiasts, make up a small portion of the auto market, disappointing them with a short range wonder, for a ridiculous price, just further kills off your market!
Gas was selling for $2.49 at Costco today, that's the real EV killer right there.
The public, enthusiasts too, are a fickle lot. Let's see what happens, say 1 year after this is released to the general population of the planet! I bet it thrill lasts no longer than Prius PHEV Model 1 did!
I hate to say it, but it makes Volts that much more appealing!
Wow, that hurt to say!

 

I think the biggest challenge with non BEV plug ins (ones that still have an ICE for whatever purpose) is that the the vast majority of people don't understand them and don't want to have that extra mental energy in their life. People like simple. Either an all ICE car or an all BEV makes more sense to people. Think of all the people on the Gen3 PiP forum that even though they own one, still don't necessarily get a lot of the nuances of the car.

 

I have exactly the opposite feeling about the Prime (as a Prius sub-brand) being introduced to millions of people who have never experienced a plug-in before. Particularly outside of the California bubble. It will probably be the best thing that ever happened to the Volt or to the Leaf.

 

Rather than support a plug-in with the potential of actually reaching ordinary consumers and being cost-competitive in this generation (that means selling at mainstream levels without tax-credit help), you just want to stick with an ideal and hope gas prices go up?

That's not realistic. It's a careless disregard for the past. Attracting sales from the showroom floor is far more difficult than simply offering a generous amount of EV capacity.

Look at how GM misunderstood their audience with Volt. The first-generation struggle with sales... despite shockingly low lease prices, large subsidies, and HOV privileges. It was hoped to be a product for the masses, but was clearly probably is wasn't. Now, the second-generation seems to have fallen into the same trap. It's very appealing to enthusiasts but offers little draw for the typical driver.

The "why bother" attitude certainly puts you at odds with history and the current state of the market. How will "the real world of EV" achieve sustainable high-volume profitable sales in this newest generation now being rolled out?

There continues to be growing pressure from traditional vehicles. Think about how well the compact SUV hybrids with a plug would do. It doesn't take much to imagine an Equinox using the Volt system or a Prime version of RAV4. What EV will be able to affordably be able to compete with that?

 

You really think it's going to be introduced to people that haven't already been introduced to the Volt or Leaf?

 

Introduction means very little. It provides only the most basic information, by no means what's needed to make a purchase decision. People will hear about them and will stumble across tidbits online. They may end up doing some searches to find out more. Just a raising of awareness is no where near enough.

We've already learned that selling "green" doesn't attract many buyers. Gas prices are low and the mindset is that efficiency & emissions are sufficient. The reasons for switching over to electricity fall on dear ears. There simply isn't anything compelling to make most people switch.

Nothing compares to the showroom experience. Being able to see the vehicle in-person and take a test-drive is priceless. Many, many Prius purchases were the result of discovery at the dealer. Prius Prime will take advantage of those opportunities. Rather than push the "green" aspect, let the technology draw them in.

Sorry if some don't like the approach, but that is reality. Being realistic means finding a way to accept the situation. Change doesn't come from forcing an idea. The consumer must be part of the transition. Skipping a step by offering only an end-state doesn't work.

 

what the point of having a phev that lets you do all your driving in ev? at 65% ev and 35% hv, the pip is almost perfect for me.
you don't need a 50 mile battery to attract buyers, but you do need other features that so far are not available in phev's.

 

Yes. I work in a place with hundreds of people and the parking lot is full of trucks and SUVs. Granted many of them don't know about plug-ins or are somewhat leery of anything with a plug but among the trucks and SUVs are dozens of Prii amidst a smattering of Ford and Honda hybrids. Everybody knows what a Prius is and the gas mileage they can get with them. And everybody know how reliable Toyotas generally are. Those two things will push the Prime into the mainstream.

 

The general thought is that you can drive in EV for all your normal driving (less daily expense in many cases, more environmentally friendly), but the vehicle's still roadtrip capable, without requiring a huge battery and a fast charging network, or the compromises of using such a fast charging network.

 

That general thought turned out to be an ideal, a selling point enough people just weren't interested in.

The open market is far more difficult to sell to than enthusiast.