So this jerk-off says...

For Johnycat 26:

The Civic hybrid does not shut down at stop lights; the Insight shuts down at stop lights. The redesigned 06 Cvic hybrid will close the valves and shut off fuel flow but, the eingine will continue to spin at stop lights.

 

Even the CEO of Toyota says hybrids doesn't make economic sense for Americans. The return on investment period is too long due to relatively low gas prices.

 

>>You go from a vechicle that costs 35K and costs $300/mo. in gas to a 24K vehicle that costs $60/mo. in gas, there you have a MPG solution<<

I don't think you'll see that unless you're interested in emissions, but that's just my opinion. A 35k car is waaaaay nicer than a Prius.

Also, I contest your mpg. Its great you may get 58mpg, but I've never seen anything higher than a very brief 50, and mostly we get 42. I've seen a lot of posts that would agree with me. Still tho, 42 IS better than 18, but when you only drive 5k a year, it takes a long time for it to be worth it.

 

I don't even know that you have to go that far... most 20K cars are waaaaay nicer than the prius, and quite a few of them get 30mpg or more. The Accord 4cyl gets 34mpg on the highway and costs 23K. Is the extra milage penalty worth the fact that it's a nicer car? Hard to decide. A year ago I would have said the Prius is worth the premium. But with more hybrids on the scene, I'm not so sure the Prius makes as much sense anymore.

 

Well, let's say the upcoming Fusion hybrid from Ford gets 42mpg, and this is probably quite a low guess, which I believe is a safe assumption because it uses the same powertrain as the Escape hybrid (4 cyl + 94hp elec) and that gets 38mpg and should weigh a bit more (and not to mention isn't nearly as aerodynamic as the sedan will be). So lower milage than the Prius but from the pictures it has a much nicer interior. And I can't believe any car will ever top the Prius in the department of "hard and cheap plastic", so that's another plus. A more powerful engine and handling that doesn't remind you of a bar of wet soap, plusses. So if it costs as much as the Escape hybrid (27K-30K), it's a decent car. If it costs less, it's a fantastic deal.

Same goes for the upcoming Altima hybrid. If you've been in an Altima you know it's got loads of plastic, but it's not the hard brittle stuff that's in the Prius.

So a year ago, the Prius was the best deal in Hybrid cars, hands down. This time next year, I don't think it will be anymore.

 

>><Sure, it's way nicer... but that introduces a whole other dimension... <<

My point was, I don't think you're going to step down from a 35k car to a prius on mileage alone. It has to be on emissions, and frankly most people don't care about that.

To back up a minute, the original reason I posted was the title of the thread - "So this jerk-off says..." and you go on to pretend how superior your knowledge is. If we believe the true value of the hybrid (right now anyway) is its advantage on emissions, that attitude will do nothing to further a "green" cause.

Again, my commute is 3 miles one way. I can drive a hummer and it hardly matters. I'm lucky.

 

Yup, sooner or later, something better will come along. I, for one, am looking forward to see what the choices will be. (Though I'll probably hold onto my Prius for some time -- I tend to cycle through cars very slowly.)

 

how the HELL are 35k cars nicer, or even 20k cars nicer? How can you compare an accord when the Prius has that much more features. Unless you are talking about hrmmm LEATHER? which is stinky and becomes ugly when its old. Or maybe the conventional transmissions, or Stupid Key Systems, etc. An Acura TL has everything the Prius has except it has leather and a sunroof BUT it lacks smart entry and is at 35k. I've even driven an 80k car and I still think my Prius which isnt package 6, is still better. price means nothing. the only reason Toyota made it so cheap is because they also sell it in Japan where cars are normally 20-25k. Otherwise they wouldnt be able to sell it because the cost of living in Japan is so high.

 

I think that the abundant use of cheap plastic on the Prius is functional. It is used because it weighs less then steel.
All the details which we constantly discuss like the thermos style coolant bottle and the variable drive planetary gear tranny are all designed to allow the conventional gas engine to be as efficient as possible. All the electric stuff is just icing on the cake. Without it, the car would still get very good milage anyway and produce less emissions too. These improvements, if added to conventional cars, would improve their milage and emissions also.
A conventional piston driven motor is 100+ year old technology. If we began designing a car today with modern materials and current technology it certainly would not be gas powered. Hydrogen would probably be the fuel of choice because of it's abundance and it's emissions would be water. There are no hydrogen fueling stations built yet and it would be costly to introduce them. So, we use old tech and fuse it with new tech so we can still use existing infastructure. The whole idea of using fossil fuels is archaic and until we stop supporting oil companies, will real progress be made. This is but a first step.
So, The real story here is not what is a better car, but how can we make more technologically advanced cars to improve milage and emissions and still use our infastructure.
The prius is a small step in improvements that will continue to develop. I suspect that in my lifetime we will have access to autos that routinely get 50 miles to the gallon and require less maintainance and have all the creature comforts one desires. Too bad we didn't do it first!
-Paul R. Haller-

 

We would probably get more rain.
-Paul R. Haller-

 

We are each entitled to our opinion but...

You're right. The Nissan Skyline doesn't sell very well in Japan. They can't sell an expensive car their to save their life.
In summary, I'm darn glad you love your prius, and you should, you spent hard earned money on it. I'm glad we have ours too, but I'd rather have my bimmer back.

 

The amount of water I've seen emitted from prototype hydrogen fuel cell cars is really a very, very small trickle.

I don't know if things will change with a "production" hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (whatever that is), but at the current rate, I can't picture it have environmental changes to that degree.

What I could imagine is something another PriusChat poster brought up -- wouldn't that make wet highways the default condition?

 

Dude, have you been in a Civic hybrid? It ABSOLUTELY shutsdown at stop lights, as will the '06. The only time it will not is if you have the A/C on, and the '06 isn't affected by that.

 

The Accord is built a bit more solidly than the Prius. The Accord won't do the squeaky-squeaky over uneven pavement like my Prius does. It also has features the Prius doesn't have, like... do not know... soft touch materials.

You're kidding right? I never noticed that all those nice cars out there with the nice interiors (VW, Honda, Volvo, etc.) used STEEL interiors! Holy crap! That's how they do it!

Seriously tho, do you really think that there is a huge difference in weight between soft and hard plastic? The only difference is cost. Toyota went on the cheap with the Prius interior.