so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient...

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

How do the modern VW deisels engines compare to '70-'80's in reliablity, though? A friend of mine use to have a '80 Rabbit, and I don't remember him having any specific problems with the engine. It had the electrical gremlins and some problems starting, but it was also 10+ years old with high milage at the time. So it's hard to tell what's do to the design or age and maintence.

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

there is a definite advantage to bio-diesel as it does not add CO2 to the atmosphere and although it is much better than fossil fuels, it still provides an impact due to its processing, transportation, etc. so producing crops specifically to make bio (or ethanol) is not the best way to go...

so bio in that sense is better than most options because it can be produced by waste products, things we would throw away anyway. it is also a "localized" power, like solar, water and wind which is where we need to go eventually anyway. cutting out transportation costs as much as possible.

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

Biodiesel is a major benefit instead of filling up the landfill. Isn't that seen as green?

SF has been collecting used cooking oil to convert them into Biodiesel to power their fleet of diesel buses.

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

They designed them as diesel engines to start with, so they should be vastly better. The moral of the story is clear....some auto companies will take major shortcuts to get a fad out to "capture" the unaware. The modern version of this story is GM making the BAS "hybrid". No major changes to the drivetrain, but a way of charging more green money for very very little MPG improvement. (e.g. The new chevy malibu hybrid....a fantastic leap of technology that gives you two...yes, just two more mpg.) Now if GM ever produces a car to maximize mpg, could they do better than two?

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

FL Prius Driver & ShellyT,

First, FL, thanks for the compliment on my post. I was at first surprised by the lack of comments on it, but I figured I just bored everybody to death with my rant, but how else can I feel when I buy my 1st new car & spend as much on it replacing engines (3 cracked blocks!!) in the 1st 45,000 miles as I paid for the car new.

Shelly, I wasn't the only one having problems (as I already mentioned in my previous post). Some poor owners were having their new car's blocks cracked by the dealer's mechanics in the required !,000 mile, 1st service, headbolt re-torquing procedure & some others who made it past that & only later experienced a blown head gasket, paid for gasket & the labor for a teardown only to have the mechanics crack the block during re-assembly. So in 1980, VW went to a "stretch" headbolt that was supposedly weaker & would "give" before the block cracked. That may be why your friend lucked out & you weren't hear'g much about those problems by then.

But their solution didn't do anything to help us poor unfortunate owners of the 1977 (1st year in the U.S.), 1978 (mine), & 1979 model years. I even heard from a service mngr back then that they had been experienc'g engine failures with the European Rabbit diesels as far back as 1975. If I had only known that before my purchase !! I thought I was being prudent by wait'g for the 2nd U.S. model year (to get the bugs worked out) & then I find out that same engine was in the European Rabbit (with problems), so it was in its 4th year in that car when I got mine.

Apparently the VW engineers weren't good exterminators (getting rid of bugs), & I didn't do enough homework or research (to find out about the shortcuts you mentioned, FL). All I saw was "really high MPG" in the glitzy sales brochures & put mine on order. Just like the Prius, the wait'g time was long (almost a year) because of the high demand for high fuel efficiency cars then. You couldn't even talk the VW dealer into sell'g you their demo car because they couldn't. VW corporate withheld the certificates of origin (mfr's title) so they COULDN'T be sold & would be available for test drives (sometimes it's the test drive that sells the car).

If Toyota had only done the same with their Prius demos, then they probably could have sold more & sold them more easily (alas, probably also making the wait time longer too), because after I took my test drive in Jan 2004, my local dealer did sell theirs (to a very demand'g customer) & didn't have another one set up for test drives for almost a year. That's probably why a lot of us had more miles on our cars at delivery than the odometer certificate said (because they were using OUR cars for test drives once they were prepped). Anyway, so I didn't get stung again by the "high MPG" hype with yet another type of "new technology" (at least in the U.S.), I did lots of research on the Prius & found sites like Mr Kash's Prius Page, PriusOnLine, & Prius Chat (thank God for the internet & these sites).

Once I felt confident that Toyota had done THEIR homework & had a quality product in the Prius & it was backed by a long enough factory warranty (the extra 20,000 miles of the Prius warranty over the Honda Civic Hybrid warranty was only ONE of the deciding factors for the Prius) & a FACTORY (NOT aftermarket) extended warranty was available for as little as $980, I made the jump & ordered my Prius in Jan 2005. The additional wait time till delivery in July 2005 got my production date past the computer program'g problems they were having through March or April of 2005, so I lucked out there.

Now back to you, FL, before sign'g off, I don't know if the VW's newest diesel engines are designed or built from the ground up as diesels, but In my original post I mentioned the VW Golf TDI (diesel) which I believe came out in the early to mid 90's. The 1st day I saw one I liked the looks of it & I knew it was a diesel because I was follow'g it & could smell the telltale exhaust. So I went straight to the local VW dealer & asked the service dept to get out their manuals on it & tell me how many headbolts the new diesel TDI had. When they showed me only 10 headbolts still (after all those years since my '78), I just shook my head in disgust & turned & walked away saying "No thanks". I had no intention of becoming another guinea pig. After the lack of support/sympathy I got from VWoA & the local dealer & the lies/contradictions/backpeddling from them too, they couldn't get me to take a VW diesel (or any model VW for that matter) even if they gave it to me at no charge.

Ken (in Bolton,Ct)

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

I don't think that "ethanol" was the original fuel of choice...
but veggie-diesel was.

The John Deere tractor, when it was first developed, was designed to run on Hemp Oil (what we would now call biodiesel).

Biodiesel was well on its way to being the agricultural fuel of the US, until the petro-chemical corporate demigods got enough control in the government to make growing hemp illegal. It had NOTHING to do with "drug abuse" and EVERYTHING to do with money. After all, you just can't have farmers growing their own fuel, right?

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

Good post, thanks for the memories. I owned a 1977 and 1978 Rabbit Diesel and a 1979 Dasher Diesel.

Mine had none of the famous block cracking problems. But I owned a 1975 Rabbit (with carburettor) that would not run correctly, ever. VW admitted their mistake and I netted the first of my 3 VW Diesels as a result.

I remember fondly "hypermiling" in my VeeDubs through the middle of the country coasting down the hills and mountains, then braggin' how I made it from Fuzzy Wuzzy, CO to Indianopolis, IL on a fill-up. The bumper sticker on the back of each read "Stop the Whale Killers--Boycott Japanese Products." Ah, to be young and stupid again.

Fifty-five cents a gallon and fifty-five miles an hour (uphill) resulted in a Time Zone tank range and real budget road trips.

Bonus was, you could drive them for a couple of years and then sell them for new MSRP.

But then there was an Energy Crisis in the 1970's and...

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

No, It was that you were not asking a question or stating anything questionable. When you hit a home run, the opposing team can only watch.

Actually, VW would have some very good engineers. When a dud is fielded for many years, it is ENTIRELY because the senior management decided to con the buyers. Quite likely that some good VW diesel engineers were fired for calling the VW management idiots. I have enormous experience and stories of how clueless management is a prime American specialty.... which gets exported occasionally (e.g. Damlier buying Chrysler and your post).

Not sure about that. They sold everything they made and were limited by production, not sales. Just now is the supply and demand situation leveling off...and probably due to the US economy situation.

We are back to the question of what VW's latest management approach is. Might have to wait for a long post from a present owner.

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

Hi again, FL,

When I suggested if Toyota too had withheld the certificates of origin to guarantee the availability of test drive vehicles, even though I said "they probably could have sold more & sold them more easily", I didn't go back to proof read that sentence. What I really meant was that if test drive cars were more readily available, it would have been easier to sell more people on the new technology once they actually drove the car & saw that Toyota made the Prius to operate like a "normal car" & that there was nothing to really be afraid of. I wonder how many people passed on a Prius because none were available to test drive & they thought it had to be plugged in every night or that it would be too underpowered to get out of its own way. I actually have had people say both of those comments to me.

Ken (in Bolton,Ct)

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

After having to wait for a Prius in the first year in the USA (2001) and then still be waiting for one last year (2007), I can understand why Toyota may have not gone all out to advertise more or be more proactive. Your point is correct that more active test drive opportunities may have increased awareness. But would this have done anything more than make the waiting lists longer?

Now that Prius's are on the lots is the time to start what you are talking about.

 

Re: so much misinformation in comments for Clean Diesel Cars Green than Hybrids - New Fuel Efficient

Actually, the oil industry didn't really consider hemp much of a threat at the time: oil was dirt cheap in the early 20th century and hemp was not really economically viable substitute.

The underlying factors behind the Marijuana Tax Act were building for a while in the US, and ranged from local competing interests, to religious fervor (Harry Anslinger, who was instrumental in pushing the Act, was deeply religious and rallied against all forms of "sin," including alchohol.)

Also, marijuana was largely used by minorities, and there had been a continuing weakening of the economic (and thus, political) significance of hemp growers (hemp production was too expensive compared to wood pulp and cotton,) so it was an easy target.