Smoke and Mirrors

I'm willing to bet that more people on this forum know about the GM bus than you think.

Actually, I'm not sure if those GM buses do much more to reduce emissions than the ones they replaced. I seem to remember a comparison posted on this forum months back where they came out to about flat or maybe a little worse than the conventional ones in terms of emissions.

Keep em coming... these are great.

 

Yeah I know, but don't care. I work for their rival. :lol:

 

http://www.isecorp.com/

 

Heh... defensive aren't we? Must be some deep laid flag-waving instinct ...

GM has plants in Mexico.... they make a lot of Suburbans, Yukons, and Tahoes.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/...S200.A2178.html

 

and so what??

are you saying we should drive buses to work?? unless gm can provide a commuter vehicle, what difference does it make what they did in some other area? this is a car forum remember?

also, i asked you. would you prefer more carbon monoxide or more carbon dioxide? i didnt ask you if either was preferred.

although imm, i prefer carbon dioxide as it is vital to the survival of this planet. not sure what carbon monoxide is good for

 

You know, you gotta do better than just copying and pasting from an article from MSN that's basically a press release from GM...

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022529

You bust on the media, but depend on one to copy and paste when it suits you...

 

I edited your quote above to add numbers to make this easier.

Here we go..

1) Isn't Toyota making the biggest effort here? Not only do they have 3 Hybrids available right now, but they have plans to have 80% of their lines available as hybrids in the next 10 years or so.

2) Again, Hybrid's rule here. GM/Ford and the other american car companies haven't done much - All they've done is taken trucks and added batteries so they can stop burning gas at stoplights.

3) Toyota wins here. I've 31 and have owned american vehicles all my life. Chevy Blazer, Jeep Classic and the 2 Jeep Grand Cherokees. Each one was take past 100k miles. Each one had many many problems sometime after that. Show me an american car with over 200k miles and I'll show you a dozen Toyota's. I really thought my next car would have been another Jeep, then I decided (after replacing the transmission at 100k miles) that I would finally go with a Toyota 4Runner. Then, I finally moved to the Prius since I could make due without my gas guzzling Jeep or 4Runner - Especially since I drive 30k miles a year.

4) US Auto Makers win here. They are far better for our economy. Not only will the vehicles not last as long (requiring a new vehicle purchase), but if you keep it over 100k miles, you'll need to spend a lot on repairs. This is all great for the economy since it helps keep service technicians and parts makers in business.


And as I recall from one of your other comments - you stated how Toyota's epa numbers are dropping. Maybe that's simply because more people realize Toyota quality is far superior, so they are buying the Toyota SUV's, pickups..etc instead of the american made. Even aside from that, Everyone's EPA numbers have dropped, show us something that states Toyota is far worse than everyone else and then show us how sales are equal. If you're going to state something, back it up.

 

I agree with what Maytrx said, but add that Ford is investing heavily into their own full hybrid technology.

The Escape is very much like the Prius in that regard... AT-PZEV, high mileage, full hybrid...

Ford seems to be the one big 3 car manufacturer that is delivering on their promise.

 

This is great. BUT, it's in one area. Why don't they use this technology and make a consumer vehicle?

Are you saying GM is doing more than Toyota, just because of this one act they've done?

Here's an interesting exercise. Let's say 100,000 people ride those buses every day. I might be high, low..it doesn't matter - it's just a number. Let's take 100,000 drivers (they can't ride the bus). How much fuel is saved if we take those 100,000 drivers and put them all in hybrids?

So, find out how many people actually ride the bus each day. Then we could do the math and see which would have a greater impact.

 

I don't know if I'd give ford too much credit yet. The escape is just one vehicle. I'd like to see a few more before I'd say their delivering.

 

I think they're doing the Fusion soon too. Hope it's still a full hybrid.

 

Yes... we at Priuschat have debunked bluewaternetwork already. The problem is that the people they get to drive the cars (and this is the same for nearly any auto review you read) are a bunch of auto pundits. They drive the car hard, and they only do it for 1 tank, and they make conclusions based on that.

How about actual real world data? How about showing me someone who's driven it for a year, or 15000 miles?

It's much harder to "debunk" hybrids if they actually use real world drivers instead of just some auto industry pundit.

I know some Highlander Hybrid owners who get 30+ MPG, so it's not impossible, and it's very much within reality.

 

Amazing.

Is this the same General Motors that, between the twenties and the fifties in conjunction with several other companies and through the National City Lines (NCL) holding company, acquired many streetcar systems in various cities around the United States, dismantled and replaced them with buses for the express purpose of promoting the automobile?

Instead of clean running electric powered light rail we ended up with smoke belching diesel buses.

Amazing indeed.