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Smoke and Mirrors

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by malorn, Oct 28, 2005.

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  1. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Those are.
     
    #61 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  2. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    interesting statement you have here. a blog post

    My Dad is a senior citizen and recently sent me an e-mail...

    Hello All,
    This is something everyone should give a little thought.
    Came from one our Valley winter people.
    Bill
    > Subject: Interesting
    >
    >
    > Hmmmmmm.... Ironic? I think not. This one is quite on the mark.
    >
    > THINK ABOUT THIS!
    >
    > A car company can move its factories to Mexico and claim it's a free
    > market.
    >
    > A toy company can out source to a Chinese subcontractor and claim it's a
    > free market.
    >
    > A major bank can incorporate in Bermuda to avoid taxes and claim it's a
    > free market.
    >
    > We can buy HP Printers made in Mexico. We can buy shirts made in
    > Bangladesh.
    >
    > When I need to speak to someone about my computer, I talk to some- body in
    > India.
    >
    > We can purchase almost anything we want from 20 different countries
    >
    > BUT, heaven help the elderly who dare to buy their prescription drugs from
    > a Canadian pharmacy.
    >
    > That's called un-American! And you think the pharmaceuticalcompanies
    > don't have a powerful lobby?
    >
    > Think again!

    i must say he definitely has something there... i think his problem, along with many other private citizens, is that our government DOES NOT have our best interests in mind.

    i guess we could talk about the pharmaceuticals and how they may be damaged by this loss of business and what that could do to their shareholders and...

    ya ok...

    never mind... just saw their latest earnings statement

    sooo, how much of that "american" car actually comes from here?
     
    #62 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 31, 2005
  3. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    How much of Toyota's record "global economy" profits come form someplace other than the US? China may someday change this fact, but as of today there is only one market in the world and you live in it!
     
    #63 malorn, Oct 31, 2005
  4. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I went to the official site

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov

    and first selected a "typical" 2005 Toyota Tacoma 2WD V6 with auto. Rated 18 city and 22 highway. Greenhouse gas rated 9.5 tons. EPA pollution score is 6 out of 10, from Bin 5. The higher the number the better.

    I then selected a "typical" 2005 Colorado 2WD I-5 with auto. This is a much smaller motor, rated 18 city and 23 highway. Greenhouse gas rated 9.4 tons. EPA pollution score 2 out of 10, from Bin 9, a poor score.

    I then selected the 4x4 trucks:

    The Colorado I-5 with automatic is EPA rated 18 city and 22 highway. Greenhouse gas rated 9.6 tons, EPA pollution score is 2 out of 10 from Bin 9, a poor score.

    The Tacoma 4x4 V6 and auto is EPA rated 17 city and 21 highway. Greenhouse gas is rated 10 tons, EPA pollution score is 6 out of 10 Bin 5.

    But this isn't "apples to apples" as the Colorado I-5 is a 3.5 litre motor and the Tacoma V6 is quite a bit larger at 4.0 litres. That alone I would have expected MUCH better results from the Colorado.

    Let's compare to the 2.7 litre Tacoma in 2wd:

    EPA rated 21 city and 26 highway. Greenhouse gas rated 8.3 tons, EPA pollution score 4 out of 10 Bin 7.

    The Colorado 4 cylinder is 2.8 litre, much closer in displacement to the base Tacoma 4 cylinder. EPA rated 18 city 25 highway. Greenhouse gas rated 9.3 tons and EPA pollution score 2 out of 10 Bin 9, a poor score.

    The 4 cylinder Tacoma 4wd is only with a stick shift, but you can get a 4 cylinder Colorado with a stick shift, so a fair comparison is possible.

    The Tacoma 4x4 4 cylinder is EPA rated 19 city 23 highway. The same rating applies to the Colorado.

    The Tacoma is rated greenhouse gas 9.3 tons with an EPA pollution score of 4 out of 10 Bin 7. The Colorado is rated greenhouse gas rated 9.1 tons with an EPA pollution score of 2 out of 10 Bin 9, a poor score.

    Any more questions?
     
    #64 jayman, Oct 31, 2005
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Well, time for lunch, and solid meetings all afternoon. This is a fascinating troll-centric discussion and hope to continue this evening.

    Some of us do have to work for a living

    <_<
     
    #65 jayman, Oct 31, 2005
  6. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Check out the annual grennhouse gas emissions at the EPA site, colorado produces less at all configurations. Isn't that what we are all trying to prevent?
     
    #66 malorn, Oct 31, 2005
  7. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

    I'm not a big fan of Toyota trucks to be honest, but seriously, malorn, I was able to spend 5 minutes on fueleconomy.gov and find exactly what jayman found....

    Your car does not have better emissions than the Toyotas you are bashing.

    I don't like Toyota trucks, but facts are facts, and you've got none.
     
    #67 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  8. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I probably will have time late tonight or tomorrow. There are 4 separate issues:

    Fuel Economy
    Emissions
    Quality
    US Economy
     
    #68 malorn, Oct 31, 2005
  9. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Greenhouse gas is one thing, but air pollution (read: smog) is just as important. That's where your car falls down compared to the Toyotas.
     
    #69 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  10. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Ok you said just as important right. So does that mean it is a draw?
     
    #70 malorn, Oct 31, 2005
  11. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    It means there is no clear advantage, compared to your statement that your car's emissions is outright better...

    Just as an aside, my car puts out 3.5 tons of greenhouse gas a year... and is Bin-3. 9/10 on the air pollution index.
     
    #71 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  12. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I have to go now to. My final comment for now is I am very invloved in economics and we can sit here and debate fuel economy(except on the prius,it wins), emissions, quality until we are blue in the face. There is an economic war going on right now and the United States is getting blasted by Japan and China. I have done many economic impact studies on what will happen if Ford and/or GM go down. I promise you all that there isn't anybody on this forum that will like the results. That is what prompted my original post in this forum, Toyota is manipulating the American Media(what a shock) as they attack the market(trucks) which will give Toyota world domination adn sink the United States into an economic funk which will rival the great depression. General Motors alone is the world's largest private provider of health care, and combined with Ford and their subsidiaries and suppliers are responsible for between 4 and 6 % of the GNP.
     
    #72 malorn, Oct 31, 2005
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Active Member

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    Quit feeding the trolls guys, my COMPUTER is starting to smoke! Saw it in the mirror! :)

    This guy has owners of one the cleanest, most fuel-efficient vehicles on the planet defending trucks and SUVs, of all things! Look at what he drives! :blink: Just back away slowly!!!
     
    #73 Wayne, Oct 31, 2005
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Ya know, all this "build hybrids for PR" issues are really shallow.

    You know very damn well that if the Japanese want to keep it to themselves, they will. You should be happy that they brought it out of Japan and to the rest of the world. As for trucks, oh boo hoo. Americans are the only one that love trucks and Toyota's building it FOR you, you ungrateful kids. Check out the rest of the world, all they've got is a RAV4 and a LandCruiser. What do we have here? 3 more SUVs to fill the gap between the RAV4 and LC. Oh, and add two more for the Lexus versions of the LC and 4Runner.
     
    #74 Tideland Prius, Oct 31, 2005
  15. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Would you like to put on your tin foil hat now? After all, Toyota is stealing your thoughts, don't you know? Right there up with Major League Baseball...

    :lol: Continue. I love a good conspiracy theory from a loon!
     
    #75 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  16. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Heh... Sorry... i wasn't defending Toyota trucks... I cringe when I see those commercials on TV and that other Toyota logo... but my beef was with his facts. I will stop now.
     
    #76 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  17. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Toyota sells the RX and the Highlander in other markets too... they're just called the Harrier and the Kluger...
     
    #77 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
  18. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I love that Toyota commercial where they position themselves as an American company, showing that new plant that they just opened and all the jobs they created! I feel great about it as long as I don't think about the two plants that just closed and all the workers that are now working at hte 7-11!
     
    #78 malorn, Oct 31, 2005
  19. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    so let me get this straight...


    you prefer carbon monoxide, a poison, to carbon dioxide??

    is that what you are saying. if not, please clarify with facts.

    humour me... im a little slow
     
    #79 DaveinOlyWA, Oct 31, 2005
  20. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    And I love that GM commercial where they position themselves as an American company...
    Seems like they learned from the best American car companies in that regard.
    I'm originially from central NJ, and I remember when Ford shuttered their truck plant in Edison.

    Keep the conspiracy theories coming!
     
    #80 LaughingMan, Oct 31, 2005
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