Smoke and Mirrors

I hear these same type of arguements from some of the local rednecks in our area who usually shout out their opinions from a jacked-up Ford. It appears that everything they know about the subject of emissions and mpg comes from their local Ford - GM - Dodge dealer.

And even some of the media have that same attitude. The Prius (or Toyota for that matter) is a threat to a wasteful bygone era - or one that is dying.

Lets talk about quality and resale value on the vehicles you own and run them side by side to a Toyota equivalent.

I've given the Big-3 every chance in the world to make me a satisfied customer, but with each chance, I was extremely let down. Toyota and Honda haven't done that so they have my business...plain and simple.

 

Ah. Another unapologetic GM booster has joined our ranks. Does the 5 cylinder Colorado offer any benefits in fuel economy or emissions over the V6 it replaced?

I special ordered a 2000 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 and it was - without doubt - the worst vehicle I have ever owned in 25 years of driving. The AutoTrak kept failing until after 3 replacements they finally found a Mode Select cluster that would actually last longer than 8 months.

The Vortec 5.3 started knocking like a diesel a bit past 3,000 miles, and also started burning oil. GM's response: "It's normal for the motor to knock and to use 1 litre every 1,000km." Or 1 quart every 600 miles.

I have never owned a vehicle in my life that used more than 1 quart every 3,000 miles, and that was an old s*** box I bought used.

I really liked the four wheel disk brakes - NOT. Very anemic braking, and that "drum in hat" rear parking brake needed to get adjusted every 6 months or it wouldn't hold the empty truck on a slight grade. They had to be replaced just off warranty for $450. I've never worn out parking brakes in my life.

So who exactly are you blaming for Delphi's bankruptcy and GM's current woes? Some trolls have suggested the unionized workers are to blame for high wage costs and health care benefits. I don't think so, the Toyota workers in North America are UAW members, and the Toyota workers in Japan enjoy good benefits too.

Should we blame a vast left-wing conspiracy that is trying to destroy GM? I don't think so, as GM appears quite capable of destroying itself. GM was caught in 1973, again in the early 80's, and now it has been caught yet again. They never learn.

How about clueless incompetent management at GM? The folks who decided to bet the wad on single-occupant pickups and SUV's, all while laughing off small and fuel efficient cars. As another poster commented, there is nothing "patriotic" about driving such a vehicle, unless you somehow define "patriotic" as supporting OPEC and terrorism.

What is GM's current economy car? The South Korean made Aveo, produced by a GM subsidiary Daewoo. Oh I bet that is supporting American jobs.

You state that Toyota's fleet average has declined over the past say 20 years. True enough, so has every other car maker, in a vain attempt to sell more SUV's and pickups used as single occupant commuters. The same technology that has been used to double and even quadruple horsepower could have been used to provide great fuel economy.

Instead the car makers - especially GM - had to convince the car buying public they "needed" tire smoking horsepower and 0-60 times under 8 seconds.

You remind me of all the folks who knocked down Toyota in the early 80's over the "quality" issue. Like Toyota "invented" quality and was using it against GM back then. True fact is that a Dr. W.E. Deming invented the field of Quality Control back in the late 1950's, and his idea was rejected outright by American car companies.

Dr. Deming found a willing market in Japan and the rest is history:

http://www.deming.org

So if you think I have nothing but profound contempt for GM, Ford, and Chrysler, you're right. They have pissed away every potential innovation and edge to have nothing, unless you count the exciting field of big-butt cars and giant SUV's.

What I find curious is that GM received a bit over one billion taxpayer dollars from DOE in the mid 1990's to develop a car exactly like the Prius. GM claimed it was impossible, would cost too much, and nobody would want it anyway. Talk about Smoke and Mirrors! Along comes the Insight, the Prius, and others.

So once again, where is GM in all of this? They're capable of producing small fuel efficient cars in other markets, such as their Opel subsidiary.

http://www.opel.de

Why did they drop the ball here?

 

I see, so the Ford dealer is the so-called "ecomist" you gained this immense knowledge from. Sorry, and apparently you are right, we are not Ford dealers and therefore not economists as you stated in your first post, but thanks to people like you who do talk to Ford dealers, we have real economists who can educate the public about the economic issues we are facing due to the foreign car industry that is ruining our country by creating more economical, reliable vehicles.

 

Thank you. For myself my last car was a 1990 Ford Probe (built in Dearborn, MI at the Mazda plant) which got 22 average and 29 at the best. Now, again I'm curious, have you gone to other car chat sites with the same information? Or just this site which is exclusively about one model of car, which isn't a truck? I may not like the Hummer or the Cadillac Esplanade, but there's no point on going on HummerChat (or EsplanadeChat) to complain.

 

There are litterally hundereds of places you can get healthcare insurance from in this country.

Most employers offer benefits to their employees, they are not required to do this. One of the benefits typically is reduced healthcare insurance or complimentary healthcare insurance. The employer negotiates pricing and will even pay some or all of the premium. Again, this is a benefit.

National healthcare would fail just like in every other country it is currently in. There will still be private healthcare insurance that only the rich could afford. Benefits would dissappear. The average american then has to rely on the goverment for their own health. I for one don't want to rely on the goverment for anything especially the health of myself and family.

The USA is a rather large country and restructuring the population to live in one giant city is kind of silly. It is much easier for smaller countries to accomplish this.

Who wants to rely on public transporation anyways? I sure don't.

 

And of course, you "need" that big Yukon and the Dakota for work right?....

And it has to be very, very powerful because the advertisements told you that you "need" it.

Last I checked, this wasn't a Tacoma site.

 

You can blame the upper management of the Big-3 for that....not consumers who want a better product.

 

What "quality" ratings are those?

JD Powers is hard to follow as they accept advertising and are also a consulting firm. Even a poor performer like Hyundai is still lavished praise for "improving" their quality.

So let's go straight to JD Powers & Associates to see how GM distorts the facts:

http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2005089.pdf

This PDF talks about the quality awards and how GM has really "improved" their quality. Skip the drivle and go to page 3.

The Problems per 100 Vehicles is ranked on 3 year old 2002 model year vehicles. Note that Lexus is ranked the best at 139 problems. Buick is 163, not bad but more troublesome. Toyota on average is 194. Chevy is 232, statistically worse than Toyota.

The industry average is 237.

GMC is 245 and right at the bottom is Kia at 397.

So how do you rank GM and Toyota as "neck and neck" in quality?

 

http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/01/1001/union07.html

BTW why haven't you addressed my other comments?

 

I am willing to support the ones who are making steps in the right direction ON THE GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE and not the ones who are worrying about their stock holders and just pushing a bottom line.

 

So you are proposing that American consumers shop only for American made products with no regard to pricing/quality/and function?

I stopped being a flag-waving elitist whose motto was "getr done" years ago. It's a global economy now and "made in the USA" does not always mean the product is of the highest caliber. It is our right as Americans to make a choice - and taking away that choice would make us a Communist state.

It's not about being a sell-out, it's about being a wise consumer.