Should Toyota acknowlege that the braking issue applies to the gen II Priuses?

Why should Toyota lie and say Gen II has a problem? They have enough real problems not to make up some.

 

Hey I just had a BRILLANT idea! Since people expect the Prius to slow down when the wheels are in the air and not touching anything I think Toyota should retrofit all Prius with retro-rockets on the top of the front fenders, that way the Prius can slow down while airborne.:tea:

 

Why just stop at Gen II ? What about Gen I ? opens can

 

And my question was whether it would take an accident or fatality to prod Toyota to address the issue.

Let me give you a contrasting example. BMW has a continuing problem with failure of the high pressure fuel pump (hpfp) on cars that are equipped with the twin turbo direct injection N54 engine. The N54 engine was introduced with the 2007 MY. From the moment the engine was released, the hpfp has been failing. BMW are now on their 4th replacement for the hpfp. BMW could have just extended the warranty (which they did) to 120,000 miles and replaced the pumps as and when they failed which would have likely met any 'moral' obligation. Instead, they have gone through 4 iterations on the hpfp in an attempt to fix the issue.

Conversely, it takes a threatened shutdown of the production line by NHTSA for Toyota to get energized.

So, back to my original question - what will it take for Toyota to get energized about the Gen II Prius brake problems? A fatality? Or????

 

Repeat after me...... there is no braking problem, there is noooo braking problem. This is all media hyperbole. Toyota is readjusting one or several parameter(s) in the software for the ABS/Regenerative/Friction brake system of the GEN IIIs. Yes over wash board surfaces or slick surfaces if the ABS engages while the Regenerative braking is functioning you get the sensation in the seat of your pants that the car is accelerating. Just keep pressing the brakes the car will stop normally. So again repeat after me... there is no braking problem.

 

If there are objective demonstrations of problems with Gen I Prius, they should get a fix as well.

 

Fixed your post for you.

You really should mention that you are a Toyota apologist when you post. It would help readers understand you.

 

Your argument is "Look, the government didn't force BMW to act!"

But the government cannot force an automaker to do anything unless there is a safety reason. It's not really a contrasting example.

 

Perhaps you don't have traffic problems where you live? If the hpfp fails in rush hour traffic the car pretty much comes to a stop. There is a limp mode that occurs to help the driver get off the roadway, but that sometimes occurs and sometimes doesn't. Any cars behind the car that can't stop quickly enough plow into it. BMW is taking the measures it is taking to show that it is making a diligent effort to fix a known problem. Toyota seems to be engaging in denial. At least until they were threatened with a sales shutdown.

You are using safety as a reason for there not being action on the Gen II Prius brake issue. My question to you then is how many fatalities must there be before Toyota is forced to fix the issue? 1? Or????

 

I don't think you have to be a "Toyota apologist" to believe that this is not a serious problem for the Gen 2. My opinion is that it is simply a "quirk" of the Prius regenerative braking system. It is a reminder that all is not what it seems to be.

When you press that brake pedal, the illusion is that you are somehow in control of applying the brakes. In reality, that motion is analysed by the Skid Control ECU and the HV ECU and the computers discuss how much braking force to apply and how to do it. 100% regen? 50% regen + 50% friction? 100% friction? It depends on several factors including the SOC of the HV battery, so the computers decide what to do based upon the info they have. You are only a voting member of this organization, not the final authority.

I think it is amazing that the illusion is so good.

 

Perhaps an objective investigation is in order to determine whether there is in fact a problem? Right now, Toyota is manifesting safety deafness. Contract with someone like the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety to make an objective assessment of whether a problem exists or not. Now is not the time for denial or deafness.

 

My opinion is that it is not a safety problem, but if you believe that it is you can report it to NHTSA just like you would for any other safety problem.

 

I feel that something is not quite right and it should be fixed. Why should I not stop if one of four wheels is slipping for any reason while the other three have traction? Isn't that what the ABS is suppose to do --- transfer braking around to balance the forces?

 

And realistically at the moment, that is the only option available to owners in the U.S.

 

Any car can have better brakes. If the Prius's brakes have been good so far 99.9% of the times they have been used, and they have been, one can make the argument that while Toyota knew they expected that the issue would have consequences rarely if at all.

Further, it's not Toyota's fault that the roads are full of potholes. Since this issue is so limited I don't think you can claim this standard for any manufacturer.

I DO think that Toyota should update this glitch, for a small cost. But I doubt they are legally responsible.

As I have said many times here, Toyota's reputation is dinged, but they are so far ahead of other companies that they will go on.

 

Round these parts, the roads are full of manhole covers, which, at least on my 07, have about the same effect as potholes. And as I recall, most of them were there before the first Prius hit the road. Not 'Toyota's fault' either -- but another well known part of normal driving...

 

They could get rid of these problems just be disabling abs altogether... I don't think the hybrid system requires it. We'd have no more funny feelings when we hit a pot hole. Of course, a few more prius owners would die when they lose control in a wheel lockup since that will happen in lots of emergency situations and usually lengthens your stopping distance and definitely won't let you hold a turn. But hey... abs isn't a requirement for cars and we all survived before abs (well, those that didn't never joined pc). So let's all run in and get them to turn off our abs somehow.

 

The latest:
Early Priuses may have braking issues - Autos- msnbc.com