Should English Be Made the Official US Language?

"the American Dollar is the universal language - in English obviously."

The American Dollar is grossly overvalued, as the Chinese Renminbi is undervalued. China has a large trade surplus with the US; we have a 76 billion dollar deficit. They are beating our nice person on trade, to use scholarly language. If these trends continue, the US will certainly lose its status as the dominent superpower and we may well be trading in Renminbis before long. Then we will have no choice but to learn the language of the dominent global power - China.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 19 2006, 04:27 PM) [snapback]335258[/snapback]</div>

Let's get rid of the myth that most Europeans speak a second language. Maybe I don't mix with the right sort of people but I know very few English people who are fluent in another language. A few years ago I worked in an office with about 100 staff and I'm pretty sure none was fluent in any language other than English. If you travel in France and Italy you'll find that people who work with foreign tourists (hotel receptionists, and so on) usually know enough English to cope but it is fairly rare to find anyone in an ordinary shop who knows more than a smattering of English.
I haven't been to Germany, Spain or any of the smaller European countries but I think it's likely that English is more widely spoken in those. But there are numerous English people who in recent years have bought a holiday home, or settled, in France and Spain and it is well known than many of these struggle with the new language and some hardly know a word of it even after a few years of residence. I have a close relative in his 60s who bought a house in Spain years ago and lives there for several months at a time but can't speak any Spanish at all because most of his neighbours are English and he spends most of his spare time in the English club.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 07:20 AM) [snapback]335522[/snapback]</div>

No, actually, I have not. Since the islanders all speak very fluent Spanish, I just speak to them in Spanish.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 20 2006, 07:38 AM) [snapback]335528[/snapback]</div>

No. You are mistaken. I do not define educated as being able to speak more than one language. I consider that being able to speak more than one language is a component of education, and I consider that an education is not complete without it.

Science and math are necessary to understand the physical world we live in. Languages are necessary to understand the cultures we share the world with, and therefore to understand the human world we live in. The two complement each other and a well-rounded education includes both.

 

"I consider that being able to speak more than one language is a component of education, and I consider that an education is not complete without it."

Why do we have to state the obvious? This is hardly a "controversial" idea. At least, it should not be.

 

Legislating on behalf of an official language is about as effective as legislating morality.

It's even more difficult when those making the attempt are surprisingly ignorant of either.

_____________

On another note, how about the idea of bettering ourselves through education...instead of attempting to defend our ignorance with a transparent veil of patriotism?

 

My own story:

I took four years of Latin and French in high school simply because I enjoyed them. Later on I took random classes in Italian, German and Japanese. I didn't learn enough of these tongues to order dinner but they were fun too.

In grad school (for History) I was required to pass a foreign language exam, which I failed. I went back and started re-taking French and was liking it so much I dropped out of grad school and got a second B.A. in French linguistics. All this time I was a full-time airline pilot and my studies didn't earn me a dime. They were a hobby. I also took more college courses in Latin in my off time. So what did all this do for me?

I know English better than most folks because I understand the structure of language that a native speaker doesn't learn. I can see the meanings of words more clearly. The Japanese course gave me a much deeper appreciation of our differences and similarities. It inspired me to write a long paper on the Manzanar riots during WWII which has been used by one of the children of that time in writing his own book on that shameful incarceration. One's culture and philosophy is expressed in his language. In my many flights to France, I felt more at home and developed a closer affinity with folks I met. I made them laugh when I spoke their beautiful tongue!

Nowadays, retired from TWA, I teach college astronomy classes. My Latin is extremely useful in teaching this science, so rooted in the past. All of the prominent stars have Latin designations that follow that language's rules of declension. I can show my students old documents written in Latin and translate them on the fly. Physics Ph.D.s in my department come to me for help with matters of the old language. They help me with string theory. Am I more educated than they? In one way yes, and another no. We all contribute what we can.

I feel my education is about as liberal as I can imagine. I've always preferred to be a jack of all trades and master of none. I can walk and chew gum at the same time (but not blow bubbles while under way.) I've been able to see many more interesting shadings of life as a result. For Christian true-believers, remember the Tower of Babel has biblical backing! God, Himself, made us polyglots. Be careful not to cross Him!

This is just my experience, neither better nor worse than others, just different. Official language? What for, to bolster the weak egos of those who speak one or fewer languages? I love the diversity of life and, if my ballot comes in ten languages, I get to spend some time trying to translate this free Rosetta Stone puzzle just given me. More fun! The glass is half full......

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Oct 20 2006, 12:24 PM) [snapback]335738[/snapback]</div>

What you have to understand is that the "second language" most non-Americans speak isn't necessarily English. Speaking Flemish and French counts as two languages. (Belgium) If you live anywhere near a border over there, you speak two languages or go broke.

And what is this liberal bashing about? Liberals aren't for an official language: the Republican blowhards are behind this. This "mistake" reminds me of the recent attempt by Fox News to label Foley as a Democrat from Florida. Several times.

What a brave new world we live in today.

 

Part of learning another language is educating ourselves about other cultures, and learning to respect people who aren't like us. With the emphasis on English as 'the universal language', we are losing our cultural diversity as quickly as our biological diversity. I understand the practicalities of everybody being on the same page, but I have no desire to live in an assimilated monoculture. Vive le difference!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Oct 20 2006, 04:19 PM) [snapback]335801[/snapback]</div>

What an interesting combination - airline pilot and academic. Did you know Samuel Beckett once considered becoming a pilot? I think the jet lag would do me in, though. It takes over a week for me to adjust after getting back from China.
I just read that 75% of Americans have never had a passport. That explains a lot of the fear of different languages, different religions, different cultures. I love the diversity of life too and am happiest when travelling -the more remote, the better. My last trip was to the Gobi desert in China. I think if more people travelled and learned about other languages and cultures there would be far less chance of war.

 

I agree with you. How can this even be an "issue"? "Save the shoes, ship the liberals to irag!" Love your avatar btw


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 19 2006, 06:11 PM) [snapback]258313[/snapback]</div>

 

Is Artemis Wiz allowed to post advertising in his signature like that? If so, I've got a few things I'd like to sell.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Oct 21 2006, 12:38 AM) [snapback]336034[/snapback]</div>

Which brings to mind your signature. The DICE (In the mail!), are those the big fuzzy ones that some people hang from their rear view mirrors?

:lol:

 

I ain't got no idea.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 21 2006, 08:32 AM) [snapback]336084[/snapback]</div>

You came up snake eyes on that! But it was a natural mistake. Gotta go: baby needs a new pair of shoes!

(But that reminds me that it has been some time since I purchased the DICE and nobody's been knocking at my door. I wonder if I really ordered it or just joined a cyber-list. My credit card data went through fast enough. I thought that was the "official language" for on-line buying.)

 

I think that making English the official language would not really provide any benefits of any kind and would oppress the minority that is not fluent in English.

The fact that there are many areas in the US where Spanish or Chinese or other languages are common is a good thing, it permits subcultures to thrive rather than die off. This brings both economic and social benefits.

English is already the dominant language, it doesn't need any help from legislators wasting taxpayer dollars on irrelevancies. This topic is just an effort to arouse hostility towards immigrants for political purposes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Oct 20 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]335801[/snapback]</div>

Its been a while since I last attended sunday school, but isn't the lesson of the tower of babel that god was jealous of the progress man was making with a single language and blunted our ability to communicate?

It just occurred to me that this is analogous to the development of the qwerty keyboard layout: a deliberate attempt to slow down typists who were jamming early typewriters.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Oct 21 2006, 08:43 AM) [snapback]336087[/snapback]</div>

This is the image I had in mind:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Oct 20 2006, 04:19 PM) [snapback]335801[/snapback]</div>

Interesting story, Alnilam. Although I haven't been a pilot like you, I feel we may be kindred spirits: I was born in France, came to the US as a child after WWII, and have lived in the US since then (though I do return to France occasionally for visits). I speak English with no foreign accent (so I have been told), and pursued my French studies here, getting a PhD in French, which I taught at various colleges for 15 years. I also studied and am reasonably fluent in Spanish. I took years of Latin in college, and loved it. I taught myself enough German to pass a reading test for my PhD requirements. I love learning languages and talking to people of other cultures. I even tried Chinese some years back with a once a week instructor, as a hobby, but didn't spend enough time on it to acquire fluency, though it was a lot of fun. I wound up with a Master's in accounting and a CPA certificate when the demand for French petered out, and taught college accounting for many years. Now I am retired, and still perk up my ears when I hear someone speaking in a foreign language!
I don't see any need for making English the official language of the USA. What for? People who live here obviously must know enough English to function, since English IS the dominant language. In fact, English is well on its way to being the dominant world language.Ironically, the French have been trying to keep English out of France, even passing laws making it illegal to use a foreign word (usually English!) and trying to invent French equivalents for concepts invented in English. And the French have failed totally!! You can't stop language at the border! It goes where it wants.
A bientot!
priusunum

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 01:37 PM) [snapback]335816[/snapback]</div>

That was one of the best things about the job: you could be an airline pilot and anything else too. We got a lot of time off and after a while you could control your life to a high degree. For several years I went to school Mon-Thu and flew Fri-Sun. I could do my reading and homework on layovers. And that was before the Internet! It would be a snap today.

We had guys with active law practices, lots of sideline businesses, and runaway hobbies galore. One person I used to fly with got his Ph.D. in Chemistry from Stanford while flying full time. He became a Captain-Doctor. One religious sort became a Reverend Captain. A couple of my students jokingly call me Professor Captain Bob. They get extra credit for that.

Another pilot became mayor of his town and a close friend got elected to the Missouri state legislature. I got into marathon running because of flying with so many who did this time-intensive sport pretty well. For a couple of years I taught French at my daughter's elementary school.

Leo Cullum, a premier cartoonist for The New Yorker and other top magazines, was a TWA pilot I flew with for years. He spent his layovers drawing. One of his aviation-related cartoons is in the latest issue.

It used to be a joke that a pilot would find his upcoming schedule and be heard to mutter, "I have to fly on Monday and Tuesday next month." Another guy would look up and respond in shock, "EVERY Monday and Tuesday?" We had to do something to fill the empty days.

I don't know why, but the people who had strong outside interests were usually better pilots than those who seemed to do nothing except fly throughout their lives. Curious minds made better landings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusunum @ Oct 21 2006, 09:27 AM) [snapback]336100[/snapback]</div>

Que vous avez raison! Imagine the outcry from the "English as the Official Language" crowd when we create a government department like the Alliance Française in Paris. This legal branch issues regular dicta declaring the validity of individual words used by the French. Great writers may have official awards withheld if they use words in their works that are not approved. Believe me, French IS the official language of France. It isn't as much fun as you might think.

Instead of ordering tacos, we'll have to request some little hard-fried corn-meal shells filled with meat and assorted relishes. It's nearly that crazy in France.

The Alliance actually has little sleeper cells in the U.S. and they receive periodic visitations from French officials trying to stem the insidious penetration of our evil English into immigrants' speech here. (I attended a meeting once in Laguna Beach, a cesspool of anti-French decadence! They even drank California wine, the swine! So soon they forget....)

A bientôt, mon professeur!
Alnilam