Should English Be Made the Official US Language?

让我们都学会普通话.

(For translation, see google translator at: http://translate.google.com/translate_t

Select Chinese to English.

Isn't it fun? Foreign languages are not that scary.

 

I suspect that we are the only country in the world where a person who speaks only one language can call himself educated and not be laughed out of the room.

Perhaps the English-only movement is at some level motivated by a gut-level fear of immigrants, most of whom speak several languages.

Here on Bonaire (Netherlands Antilles) where I am presently vacationing, the native islanders all speak at least three languages: Papiamentu, Dutch, and Spanish. And some of them speak a little English as well. And I am speaking about those that have minimal education. In the grocery store I sometimes have to ask islanders (whose native language is Papiamentu) to translate food labels from Dutch into Spanish for me.

 

We need to standardize on one language and how. Our unified language is one of the things that makes this country great. (We also need to standardize on the metric system).

I was born in Canada, and all that French crap is a serious pain, and costs time, effort, wastes paper, and divides the culture.

I only fear the immigrants who come here and refuse to learn English. My father learned it, my Grandparents did it, and so should everyone else. If a whole group of people don't learn English, it creates a dichotomy in society and leads to problems.

I know enough Spanish that you could drop me in Ecuador and I would be fluent in two months. (I went for a month and my brain started thinking in Spanish). Did I walk around demanding people speak English to me? No. I carried an electronic translator (state of the art in 1997) and practiced hard everywhere I went. People respected me for it. One girl I was dancing with at the bar finally broke down and asked if I knew any English. "Soy de Miami!" she explained. I laughed; and answered (in English) that I was from the US as well. It was quite funny because I'm a huge white guy who stands out in crowd, and she was of hispanic descent, but the only Spanish she knew was from college.

For the record, I would totally support standardizing on Spanish rather than English. English has horrible architecture and isn't even that fun to speak- except perhaps for cockney. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockney_rhyming_slang

Since English is already dominant, we should standardize on it. Ask the immigrants, they'll agree with you.

Nate

 

Yeah, I can't agree more. Having two or more languages causes suspicion, resentment, and an underclass. People can't work their way up if they're handicapped by an language barrier. I'd prefer that we use the Queen's English, but that's just me, mate. Blimey, I could really scoff a turkey sarny right now!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Oct 19 2006, 06:03 PM) [snapback]335271[/snapback]</div>

Would you like a pint o' bitter and some bangers to go with that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(prius biker @ Oct 19 2006, 04:08 PM) [snapback]335273[/snapback]</div>

Yes to the bitter. Gotta have that. Too much though and I have to spend a penny every 15 minutes.

 

I'm with Steve Martin on this one. I think all these foreigners should be forced to speak our native language -- Apache.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 19 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]335258[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, Hello Kon ta bai!


Papiamentu seems to be an interesting language as a combination of Spanish, and native languages. I found some phrases - have you used these? Ayo.


Good Morning Bon Dia (said before noon)
Good Afternoon Bon Tardi (said from noon until 6ish)
Good Evening Bon Nochi (6pm and later)
How are you?/ Hello Kon ta bai?
I am fine. Mi ta bon.
Yes! Si!
Good/Well Bon, bon
Sweet or Sweetheart Dushi
Tastes good Hopi dushi
Good Bye Ayo
one, two, three, four, five,
six, seven, eight, nine, ten un, dos, tres, kuater, sinku,
sies, shete, ocho, nuebe, dies

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 19 2006, 05:27 PM) [snapback]335258[/snapback]</div>

You define being educated by being able to speak more than one language. I prefer using the term educated in a more liberal way - being well versed in science, math, programming, literature, history, etc. I do prefer my children being experts in math and science and spening a larger amount of their time studying those subjects than foreign languages (which they do anyway). If they did not speak English my view would change obviously given the dominance of English as the International language - then I would make sure my kids spoke that fluently. We are fortunate/unfortunate that our native language is worlds primary language.

And i do not think this country of immigrants is affraid of foreign language speaking immigrants. it is our wishes for them to realize the same American dream our parents and grandparents realized - this is easiest done by speaking English - not isolating themselves from mainstreaming into America - not being able to go to college or law school or getting an MBA, etc.

 

"I do prefer my children being experts in math and science and spening a larger amount of their time studying those subjects than foreign languages"

Just because you study math and science doesn't mean you don't study languages. My wife's brothers are engineers living in China and they both speak English and Chinese fluently. One also speaks German and Japanese. That's being educated.

 

I agree that it would be great if Americans would learn at least a second language. I've found that it greatly increases ones ability to speak the first language (I've learned Spanish but not nearly well enough). I find it a bit off-putting, though, to have elitist wannabes imply that I must be ignorant if I don't know three languages and that Europeans must somehow be superior to me because of my lack of multi-language proficiency. I don't have to know three languages, or even two. And here's why:

There's a very good reason why so many people in America don't bother to learn a second language and other people in the world learn English: Because of America's position of power and influence in the world, and because of the British Empire's reach and influence in the world a century and more ago. Whether it is by popular culture, economic forces, or military conquest, English has been gradually spread throughout the world for at least the past 300 years. So those who live in other countries frequently have a motivation to learn English, while Americans have become accustomed to going to other countries and finding road signs, menus, and people in two languages: The native language and English. Therefore, there is less motivation for Americans to learn another language.

Perhaps it's unfortunate, but it's true. Can you tell me another language that is spread as widely?

I've been thinking about learning Chinese for the same reason. China is about to become a huge world player (lest you think I'm foolish for not recognizing their already current lofty status, what I'm suggesting is that it's about to become much larger through sheer economic power).

Vince

 

"elitist wannabes"

Any one in mind?

To not bother learning a foreign language because your own language and country is so dominent is simply a form of lazy arrogance. The British had it when they were top dog. Americans have in now. Learning a foreign language is worthwhile in itself because it greatly enriches your life. It is like learning to play a musical intrument. I am not being elitist. My French is far from fluent. No one has to be bilingual, but it should be strongly encouraged in school and required in university. I could not graduate from my university in Canada without a second language. If this is "elitist" then elitism is a good thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VinceDee @ Oct 20 2006, 10:47 AM) [snapback]335535[/snapback]</div>

Agree 100%. So I dont speak three languages - and I agree with you to as to why. I do speak physics, organic chemistry, physical chemistry, biology, human anatomy, pharmacology, physiology, and math to name but a few, pretty darn well - those are "foreign languages" to many people and indeed were foreign to me when I began studying them. And with mastery of those "foreign languages" I have done pretty darn well for myself and my family. Ignorant? I don't consider a person ignorant if they cant explain to me the pathways of pain - and how to interfer with them - something that a lot of people would consider more important that being able to speak hebrew.

Does not speaking three languages mean I do not appreciate great artists or authors? That I have not read the "classics", listened to the "masters", etc?

If people define ignorance or not being educated by ones inability to speak more than one language then it is they who are ignorant. It is my belief that people who think like that have a xenophobic fear of English and its growing strength and clout in the world. Did not the EU made ENGLISH its primary language :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 08:06 AM) [snapback]335546[/snapback]</div>

I didn't have anyone in mind, I simply took something I read and responded to it, whomever said it. If that was you, then I guess the answer is yes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 08:06 AM) [snapback]335546[/snapback]</div>

Wouldn't arrogance be insisting that someone learn something because you think it's good for them?

And I've certainly never argued that Americans aren't lazy; clearly they are. But there is a pragmatic aspect to this issue that you didn't address. There is little motivation for Americans to learn a second language because other countries and people accomodate their native language of English. It's not easy learning a second language, and people typically do it for the economic advantage it could give them, as well as a cultural advantage. I can certainly understand why other people may want to learn English for those reasons, but can you suggest which language Americans might want to learn that would give them some practical advantage? (note that I've already addressed learning Chinese). It's not necessarily laziness. It may be that there is no compelling reason to learn a second language.

The belief that it's arrogance is simply not supported (though Americans certainly tend to be arrogant). So many people in the world speak Latin-based languages nowadays precisely because of the last Great Empire's continuing influence on the world.

And elitism is not a good thing:

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2.
1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

Vince

 

"The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources."

Now, see what I wrote:

"Learning a foreign language is worthwhile in itself because it greatly enriches your life."

Do you bother to read and understand what you're reading?

Learning a second language enriches your life. It is a good thing, as are all forms of learning. Is it arrogant to say that? Is there anything in what I wrote about deserving "favored treatment"?

If anyone got "favored treatment", it was Bush, the legacy C student who can't speak one language, let alone two. G.W. Bush - there is a product of elitism. And you're right, it is not good. It is very, very bad.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Oct 19 2006, 11:07 AM) [snapback]335154[/snapback]</div>

Agree with the poster who said that the fact that the subject of English as our "official" language has even come up is ridiculous in itself. Total waste of time to try to legislate how we talk. It's obvious. That being said, I have found that learning a foreign language (not that you have to) gives insight and appreciation of other people and cultures. The presence of another language should not be feared.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]335617[/snapback]</div>

Oh, look, an insult. How quaint.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]335617[/snapback]</div>

You appear to be confusing our discussions of "arrogance" and "elitism". You referred to Americans as being "lazily arrogant" for not learning a second language, to which I replied that it seems arrogant to insist that someone learn a second language just because you think it's good for them. Do you know what's good for people? Would the perfect world be one in which you could force everyone else to do what you think is the right thing for them to do? And who made you the arbiter of those things that "enrich" our lives? I personally can think of many other subjects that I feel would enrich my life considerably more than learning a second language. Chemistry would be really neat to learn. So would Anatomy. I'm always working on Philosophy, Sociology and Economics, and I find that those are considerably more significant to me than the Spanish that I learned.

I feel that it's a bit presumptuous of you to conclude that Americans aren't educated simply because they don't learn a second language. I wouldn't hesitate to take on all comers in those subjects in which I feel I'm accomplished, yet I don't really speak a second language. Furthermore, it seems to me that you're under the impression that the basic act of knowing two languages automatically makes one educated. Living in California, I can assure you that I know many two language speakers who aren't very educated. It seems obvious to me that there are a whole lot of other subjects that one should be versed in before considering themselves to be educated, a second language being low on that list.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]335617[/snapback]</div>

You're not going to get an argument about Bush from me. I think he's a complete fraud.

Vince

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]335546[/snapback]</div>

You are assuming we will make the same mistakes the Brits did? Our centuries in the sun will eventually fade - maybe. Less likely with the advent of the internet (english based), our broad economic tenticles, our military and economic strength, our system of governance that cherishes the individual rather than the govt/collective, technology shrinking what was a large planet into a mere click of a button, the adaptation of American values (economic, legal, etc) by other countries, the establishment of strong ties economically and militariliy with other cultures (mind you western european cultures imo are of the least important here) where there is actually growth and future potential, etc - but still possible. I do not see another country knocking us off the throne in the near future - at least our lifetime - without knocking everybody out.

And you are playing cute here. My kids take foreign language (Spanish and Hebrew) but there is not a lot of emphasis on them. The emphasis in our public school system is math, science, computers, technology - the stuff our economy is currently thriving on and in need of for the next several decades. Learning a language for English speaking kids is cute - but totally for fun. My kids hit college and the job market armed and ready for real life in the US. And most of the people i know who have emmigrated here from other countries - mostly Canada but even those whose primary language is not English - all speak English very well - they HAD TO LEARN it - it was the primary language of their education - the reason they got in here.

Enriching your life can be done without having to learn another language. In fact, the near future holds for us small hand held devices that will translate for us - obviating the need even further to look at the study of foreign languages here anything more than a little time to relax from the rigors of studying the sciences, etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]335617[/snapback]</div>

Funny - Kerry speaks French and he was a D student. Does that mean if you learn French or speak French you get dumber or you are dumb to begin with? I do give Kerry one kudo - maybe from the French thing - he marries well :lol:

 

"it seems arrogant to insist that someone learn a second language just because you think it's good for them."

I never insist on anything. Educational systems throughout the world recognize the desireability of having students learn second languages. I don't insist, I support that direction in education. Big difference. We are talking about educational philosophy here, not making policies for a dictatorship. You are abolutely wrong to think that it is arrogant to think learning a second language is a desireable educational goal. Most people in education would agree that it is. As I said, in universities in Canada (at least in Ontario) and at all universities in China, learning a second language is required in order to graduate. Many countries do insist on it for their university graduates. Such arrogance! Are they are all wrong, and we, smugly speaking English only, right?

Trade between China and the US is growing amazingly fast. The Chinese are learning English to trade with us. We have a choice. We can say "we don't need to learn Chinese because they will all learn English". Now tell me, when sitting down at the negotiating table with the Chinese, who is in the better position, the bilingual Chinese or the unilingual Americans?. Who has made more effort to learn? Which side is smarter?
I stand by what I said, to avoid learning foreign languages is to take the easy way out, the lazy way. And to do it because you expect others to learn your language is arrogant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Oct 20 2006, 02:50 PM) [snapback]335696[/snapback]</div>

Educational systems throughout the world - sounds self-serving to me. I support learning the foreign language of science and math and information technologies, etc. Everyone in Canada has to learn a second language so they can talk to other Canadians - EXACTLY MY POINT WHY ENGLISH SHOULD BE THE UNIFYING LANGUAGE (OFFICIAL LANGUAGE) OF THE USA. Heck the French speaking Canadians hate the English speakers and came within a % point or two of separating - my cousins in Toronto wished they did. Maybe if Canada spoke one language it would not have the issues it has now - is Canada Balkanized??? We should learn from other countries mistakes.

Better position in trading depends who is buying who is selling and how much - not language dependant - the American Dollar is the universal language - in English obviously.