Saturn Vue hybrid

Johnnycat, I noticed the switchgrass article/paper was from 1991. Would you know what's happening now with it? I know Mr. Bush mentioned it...but...

curt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 23 2006, 11:05 AM) [snapback]243975[/snapback]</div>

Appearently HyHi's account for 35% of all highlander sales (in APR 06) so they're selling pretty well (at least as far as Highlanders are selling in general). What distinguishes the Highlander from, say the 4 runner? It looks wimpier, less off-road worthy. Is it more of a cross-over type vehcile? I'm not sure what niche it's supposed to fill. I have started noticing HyHi's here in Denver. Until recently I hadn't seen any, then, a couple of days ago I saw 3. The Highlander seems to be a pretty popular vehicle in Denver so hopefully I'll see more HyHi's.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 26 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]245565[/snapback]</div>

I'm pretty sure my math is not off.

Going from 27 mpg to 38 mpg is 11 mpg improvement (41%) over the 4 cyl.

From 28-39 still 11 mpg improvement (39%) over the 4 cyl.

If the combined mpg is 27 mpg and 39 mpg, 12 mpg improvement (44%).

Even if the combined is 28 for 4 cycl and 38 for hybrid is 10 mpg improvement (still 36%).

From what I can tell, you are taking the 27 mpg of the 4 cyl divided by the 38 mpg of the hybrid. % of improvement to me is how much the mileage the 4 cyl gains by becoming hybrid (from 10-12 mpg depending on the final numbers posted).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Apr 26 2006, 02:24 PM) [snapback]245583[/snapback]</div>

Good to know. When E85 isn't mass produced using fossil fuels, then to me, then we will have something.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(micheal @ May 5 2006, 01:26 PM) [snapback]250360[/snapback]</div>

Doesn't take into account how much fuel is actually consumed, a major shortcoming of that type of measurement... which is very misleading.

Imagine if you only were allowed to use 500 gallons of fuel per year. That % value would be completely worthless for calculating your actual need.

 

had a 2000 saturn LS1, and it was very nice.
kept asking my dealer when the hybrids were coming.......
was told 2004 and that came and went so now I have a 2006 prius!

 

Just saw the Vue Hybrid commercial yesterday. My significant other saw it with me and asked why I hadn't mentioned that it was coming out as a hybrid. I said 'cause it ain't a hybrid, just a start/stop system. Plus they grouped the new sedan and roadster into the photo-op (can't recall the names) and she thought they were also hybrid models. Kinda tricky on Saturn's part...these other two vehicles are NOT hybrids, are they? I've only read about the Vue BAS (belt-alternator system).

Cheers,

Curt.

 

Correction to my own post: Saturn Aura will be a BAS "hybrid", same setup as the Vue. How the heck do they get any motive force from this set-up, like they claim? Isn't it just a belt running a bigger alternator, that also starts the vehicle? Anyone with more details? I suppose it could be called upon to spin up and "help" the engine run easier, even after spinning up to start the engine...but thru the belt?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 23 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]259650[/snapback]</div>

The big alternator can also serve as a motor. It can 'help' the engine through the belt. The info I've seen says it's mainly used to help acceleration from a stop under very heavy acceleration for a very brief period of time (couple of seconds?)

 

Okay, I kinda thought this was how it would work, but...is it really gonna get that much better MPG? Any reduction of emissions? Belts wear out, right? Like timing belts?

I'll have to drive one to have a better opinion...I am Prius-blind, as it were. HSD seems to be such a robust system compared to any other hybrid today. Maybe tomorrow something will come along and out date it. Today, though, it's a marvel.

I'll agree with the cheap and add-on part of the BAS system. ALL vehicles need to stop idling when not in motion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ May 23 2006, 09:36 AM) [snapback]259654[/snapback]</div>

From the reviews of the Vue I've read, it can move the Vue from a stop before the engine kicks in. It also serves to augment passing power, and provide additional power when a non hybrid version would have to use more power from the gas engine.

 

So an "EV" mode similar to Honda's newest IMA?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 23 2006, 10:25 AM) [snapback]259685[/snapback]</div>

Sort of, but almost the opposite... this one seems to "EV" at very low speeds, which Honda's can't seem to do. More torque, perhaps?

According to the Saturn website, the Vue will also have electric A/C (all accessories and climate control will run while the engine is off) and is going to start at 23K. I don't see how they can't help to sell them at that price, given the 32MPG.

 

Must have electric steering assist, too?

Is 32 MPG the "best" number? Meaning the highway EPA number? Do you think it is better enough (sorry, best way I could phrase it) to get people to buy, compared to whatever the old Vue's MPG? I will use the age-old phrase, 'you get what u pay for'. Maybe 5 MPG better than non-hybrid?

Comparisons and cost-analysis aside, ALL vehicles need a start-stop system. It just makes sense...and I don't even have traffic woes where I sit for hours on a roadway!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 23 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]259701[/snapback]</div>

I think the 4cyl auto gets 27mpg highway, which is 5 MPG less... bang on.

Is it worth it? For the HSD premium, no... but for roughly the same price as a V6 Vue (22K) and with better mileage and more power, it might be tempting to a lot of people.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 23 2006, 09:29 AM) [snapback]259703[/snapback]</div>

I hope so. A 5 MPG improvement won't "stop the presses" but it's still something tangible and helps a variety of important causes. If it encourages the mfgs to install stop/start systems in a wide variety of models this would have a pretty substantial impact.

 

I agree with getting a start-stop system in more vehicles.

My other thinking can't help but wonder if the increase in MPG will be enough when 'hybrid' has really come to mean really big (people gasp when I tell them I get 50 MPG in the summer) increase in MPG...as well as the too-often ignored lower emissions (not just C02, the use less, pollute less part of the equation).

I guess the Prius is the standard here that people will compare to. If these new/different systems get out there and people don't see the big deal on 5 MPG, etc., will the cheaper price (than HSD...even IMA, really) bring them to buy?

Is there a chance these 'lesser' (simpler, cheaper, whatever) "hybrid" systems will turn people AWAY from hybrids in general...since the BAS is NOT a big MPG gainer...and certainly not the emissions reducer that other hybrids are?

I'm skeptical, like most people before they jumped on the Prius bandwagon. I'm for reaching more people with cheaper, cleaner, efficient cars, but knowing how people are, will they be turned-off when comparing lesser systems to the defacto hybrid, HSD? My opinion, of course!

 

Well, it's hard to say. But, people generally want to do the right thing. In this case the right thing is energy security, pollution reduction, ghg reductions, etc. However, people are also lazy and selfish so getting them to do the right thing is difficult, especially if money is involved. It's just to easy for people to say "but I'm only contributing a little to these problems". Most people perceive the necessary changes as big and crimping their lifestyle. In reality that's a load in most cases. These BAS vehicles, however, are not much more expensive than their conventional counterparts and that may be something that people spring for because they feel like their part of the solution (just a small part) and they didn't sacrifice anything (even though vehicles like the Prius are anything but a sacrifice). It may not pan out that way, but it seems like it might. It's a babystep and more people will be comfortable with that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 23 2006, 12:38 PM) [snapback]259742[/snapback]</div>

Well, part of the problem with saying 50MPG is there is no non-hybrid Prius to compare it to. When you look at the Camry Hybrid's mileage, it's not quite as impressive. Roughly 20% (combined mileage) the same as the Vue.

And since the 4 cylinder being used in the Vue is capable of being rated as PZEV in other cars, I'd love to see GM make the Vue's version PZEV as well. That'd give the Big Two the distinction of selling the only PZEV SUVs, and the highest mileage hybrid SUVs, on the market.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 23 2006, 09:13 AM) [snapback]259679[/snapback]</div>

Please sight your sources and the DATE of publish.

GM has switched from MILD to ASSIST then back again so many times for the Saturn Vue hybrid that it is unrealistic for any of us to trust we've read are the most current plans.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 23 2006, 08:43 AM) [snapback]259657[/snapback]</div>

I doubt it. If all they get is BAS, it's hard to expect much from so little to work with.

 

The analogy is somewhat Toyota is selling new DVD players which offer vastly better image quality and play flexibility. Meanwhile, GM continues to try to make a better VHS player.