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SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. GreenJuice

    GreenJuice Active Member

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    However, I can’t honestly say this change was strongly evidence-based because when I get to work (in a Covid hospital), I start by obsessively wiping everything down before I take my coat off and sit! It is simply my non-scientific perception of relative risks between those two environments! Below is a story of one early superspreader event that took place in a church in Singapore, that was attributed to fomites. One person who contracted it was not at the original service but came to a different service later that day and sat on seats at or close to where the index case had sat. It’s presumably still a guess as to whether the transmission was through surface contact or something still hanging in the air. [url="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52840763"]Coronavirus: The mystery of asymptomatic 'silent spreaders' - BBC News[/url] As with many things in science, especially medical science which is often a blend of art & science than pure science, the story continues to evolve....">

    I am not an allergy expert but we do work with them. By my understanding of skin prick tests, these are only good at picking up reactions in a particular domain of allergic sensitivity called ‘IgE mediated’ conditions.

    Our immune system has different domains and you may be aware of one which is mediated through something called T-cells. It has been in the Covid news recently as another way in which our immune systems can develop a ‘memory’ for a previous infection (or some other kind of ‘enemy’). So for example, a condition called cow’s milk protein enteropathy is one where this type of allergic reaction to cow’s milk would not be expected to show up on skin prick testing because it is not mediated through IgE antibodies but through our T-cells.

    The other thing about skin prick tests is that the range of antigens they test for is usually limited in some way; so not ‘everything’ will show up. It is possible to miss some rarer allergies simply because they weren’t included.

    The above is a just very basic understanding of skin tests. Others here may know much more than me.


    The issue of transmission via fomites (contacting via surfaces) vs aerosols is a very interesting one. I remember earlier papers in April/May quoting around 10% of transmissions were through fomites! These days, I definitely think there is more medical talk about aerosols (and prevention with good indoor ventilation) to explain some infections.

    It is still possible that fomites play a part, but less so. In the first wave, SWMBO and I were decontaminating all our incoming mail and shopping. We have not continued to do so in this second wave.

    However, I can’t honestly say this change was strongly evidence-based because when I get to work (in a Covid hospital), I start by obsessively wiping everything down before I take my coat off and sit! It is simply my non-scientific perception of relative risks between those two environments!

    Below is a story of one early superspreader event that took place in a church in Singapore, that was attributed to fomites. One person who contracted it was not at the original service but came to a different service later that day and sat on seats at or close to where the index case had sat. It’s presumably still a guess as to whether the transmission was through surface contact or something still hanging in the air.

    Coronavirus: The mystery of asymptomatic 'silent spreaders' - BBC News

    As with many things in science, especially medical science which is often a blend of art & science than pure science, the story continues to evolve....
     
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  2. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    feds purchase another 100 million doses of moderna
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Many things are trade-offs between risks and benefits. Being aware of the risks, we can make plans to mitigate any potential problems. For example, I have a needle phobia. I'll take a shot but aways take a seat for 5-10 minutes until the symptoms abate.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I prefer not to see needle entry :eek: not even in movies. But I do not syncope, so I can walk away before watchers would prefer.

    On our end of the needle, it is almost entirely psychological. On t'other side I meet phlebotomists who do hundreds per day. They rarely miss. Vaccination IM shots are child's play.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    These states persist in new-infection slowing:

    CO, IA, IL, KS, MI, MN, MO, MT, ND, NE, NM, SD, UT, WI

    More must follow soon.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I forgot about it on the cardio wing where I was instrumented. An instructor and student nurse came in to move an IV and after several failed attempts, three concerned nurses from the station joined us. So I apologized as I'd forgotten about it. Yes, it is psychological but the physiological effects are objectively measurable.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    ... some of that strongly reinforced by certain experiences in childhood. I remember several admonishments of "this won't hurt a bit", when the real goal was solely to make me hold still for a moment, them knowing full well that it would hurt. Memories of such convenient fibs long outlive the offenders.
    I do. Originally from other sources of pain or nausea. But needles were pulled into this by an attempted needle aspiration biopsy of a suspected swollen lymph node. It failed, I nearly went out in the chair, then actually did moments after. A surgical biopsy followed shortly thereafter, and the first IV needle attempt collided with a vein valve. Aargh! Nerves immediately clamped down on all peripheral circulation, withdrawing other targets. It then took lots of hot moist towels and heated blankets before getting a successful IV needle on the 10th attempt. Yes, I was counting.

    Final answer: that swelling wasn't a lymph node, it was a nerve sheath tumor. No wonder the probing and twisting, put me down.

    I hope merely reading this doesn't put anyone else down ...
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Oooohhh. Double needle biopsy. First one was trivial but second in the same zone BaBing!

    I was training dental (medical) students with the side of my face.

    But plain old 18 gauge anticubital venipucture is a walk in the park.
     
  10. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    MUST ?? What exactly makes you think that ??
    I don't think that is a given at all.......absent a good saturation of vaccine usage.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Did he mean 'must' in a predictive or a hortatory sense?
     
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  12. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a lot of our local cases started there, amazed at the contact tracing job they have done. i suppose if it wasn't that event, it would have been another.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Hortatory a word is worth using more. Be inspired to try.

    Actually, several other states are wobbling before (what I hope will be) a downward trend.

    Another way to view it is there is really no acceptable alternative in areas where medical care cannot further expand.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are the downward trends post surge from thanksgiving? we seemed to have leveled out, but Christmas is coming
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Some are and others not. Around T-day there appears to have been a lull in reporting. Some states then looked to be turning downwards, but since have resumed climbing.

    I don't know which "we" you mean @bisco, but both FL and MA are accelerating upwards.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's not what i'm seeing on the 7 day average at mdph

    hospitalizations are increasing though

    i don't follow florida closely, because i'm not allowed there this year. but on worldometers, it looks fairly flat.
    (and they have no mountains to speak of)
     
    #3197 bisco, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    MDPH Dec 12 dashboard on p.4 says what you say.

    I cannot explain disparity with the source I have been following:

    Data API | The COVID Tracking Project

    There, most recent MA 2-week average is 4370 new cases per day. Two weeks before it was 2583.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    in all honesty, i don't trust mdph. they are constantly moving the goal posts. for what reason? i cannot say. but it sure makes it confusing without continuity.
    they claim that they keep coming up with new and better ways to report data, but then, you can't compare it historically, unless you have the availability to restructure the old data. which is not reported publicly, if it is available at all.
    the only thing i can see, is that the 7 day average is the start of the downward trend.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    API and other 'accumulators' seem as transparent as possible about their data sources. That one in particular strives for consistency (among states) and flags where it is poorly attained.

    If one is going to compare states one must go somewhere. Early on, I went with API not Johns Hopkins and I do not remember why.

    Hold the line, I'll check what worldmeters.info says about your fair state.