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SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'this is a result of the government prioritizing economic activity by getting people to move around again over infection control,' said yoshihito niki, professor of infectious disease at showa university school of medicine.

    a panel of experts praised for showing leadership during the first phase, was dissolved in a political mix up, while a much derided campaign to encourage domestic travel began just as infections started to surge.
     
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  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    That's the angle.

    Further snuffling around that NHK indicates that most Tokyo new infections are 20- and 30-somethings. So they may be having more of a 'night life' thing than thinning the elder herd.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds a lot like here. we're seeing an uptick from travelers coming from hot spots. self quarantine is a poor substitute for restrictions. responsible people don't travel where they shouldn't, and irresponsible ones don't quarantine.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One of my favorite EV car reviewers and his significant other decided to do a 'grand tour.' I posted a suggestion that no one would think any less of them IF they cut it short. But their latest report is visiting the salt flats and Mojave. I wish them well.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Methanol in hand sanitizer....

    After my first several weeks of shopping attempts, I did finally start to see some hand sanitizer appearing on shelves, and brought home a couple different brands and sizes. All the brands out there are names nobody's seen before, that have just appeared in the marketplace to sell stuff.

    Meanwhile, in my news perusal I keep seeing articles about sanitizer brands that have been discovered to contain methanol, and the list keeps growing. It's getting kind of tedious to keep downloading those lists and re-checking them for the brand names on the bottles I have. (Maybe I should really write some kind of browser extension to do that.)

    It starts to sound more appealing to find out if there's a way to just test the stuff I've got for methanol, if there is some practical DIY way to do that.

    So far, the ideas I've seen run to does it burn yellow rather than blue? or how does it smell after reacting with sodium dichromate and sulfuric acid? (great, that must be why I can't find sodium dichromate or sulfuric acid at the Qwik-Pik anymore).

    From what I was reading earlier when I couldn't buy any of the stuff and was thinking of trying to make it, it's typically 60-70-ish percent ethanol in mostly water with a splash of glycerin. I don't know what the addition of glycerin would do to the flame-color test (which was suggested for alcoholic beverages, not hand san).

    Any chemists weighing in?
     
    #2505 ChapmanF, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Diluted grain alcohol:
    [​IMG]
    If you have any left over, be sure to mix 10-to-1 with favorite fruit juice.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  7. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    Are you trying to sanitize the inside of your body??
     
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  8. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Better way to do it than an injection;).

    But that's a topic for a separate thread(y).
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Or just have a beer or glass of wine when you use the hand sanitizer.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Our chance lies in the understanding that most states' citizens aren't packed together like sardines. It's the states with the densely populated areas (even more precise, the dense areas within those dates) that seem to be suffering the worst end of this thing.
    .
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ma gov announces $500./day fine for those coming in from hot spots and failing to self quarantine.

    will be intersting to watch enforcement :rolleyes:
     
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  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    @ChapmanF methanol test. Sorry to report that your list is complete. IMHO dichromate and sulfuric acid are both very dangerous for anything at the level of kitchen chemistry.

    Other simple tests will have both false positives and false negatives. The simplest possible gas chromatograph will do a fine job, but that is not available to most folks.

    Problem is that any untaxed ethanol in US will almost certainly contain methanol. Anybody who whips up a batch on the cheap (financially and morally) would start from there.

    Methanol inside you gets turned to formic acid by liver, so problems caused are not dissimilar to eating ants. Interesting (perhaps only to me) is that the dichromate oxidation also goes to formic acid, and that's the yuk smell of that test. Folks lacking lab experience should not be attempting nasal chromatography with anything like sulfuric acid.

    ==
    Following seems like a jr high school or young high school science fair project. Buy every brand of hand-san in some area and find a college chem dept with gas chromatograph. For a youth interested in chemistry it's a nice way to break in (to the minor leagues). But oops, I forgot, no science fairs.

    ==
    edit: actually there is an iodoform test as well, but also not kitchen-OK. Since I am being such a nanny about this, I'll add that most labs I visit store and handle sulfuric acid unsafely. In some cases very. I nanny quite universally about molecules with strong preferences to be something else.
     
    #2512 tochatihu, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
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  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I haven't found anything advising me not to eat ants ... and a variety of sources expounding on how tasty they are.

    Is there a guideline for how many ants would have to be eaten for formic acidosis to be an issue?

    Or does formic acid ingested have a different destiny than formic acid made in the liver from something else?
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Ants vary, but the 'right ones' were distilled as a source of formic acid before chemists figured out how to make it.

    Just eat them cooked and you wouldn't have this particular risk.

    However formic acid gets inside, liver is the thing doer.
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry but from early chemistry, my understanding is methanol forms some aromatic compounds.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    If your state is on this list, it is coming down off hotness. Whatever you are doing, keep it up and do more and give your medicos a break. They would much rather have a chance to deal with plain old serious challenges, and pull beans out of kids' noses:

    AL, AZ, CA, FL, ID, LA, NC, NV, TX

    If your state is hot and not on this list, much more action is required. Do not hope that someone else will fix it for you, least of all me. You figure out how, and communicate, and proceed.

    Therapeutics are getting better tuned. Vaccinations may be ~6 months out, but here's the deal: If your state cannot manage to control lung play now, it will not benefit from vaccines made to appear scary by forces you can't control either.

    ==
    This is a stupid little virus, and our human enterprise is so strong. SURELY it can be beaten down and surely it should teach us to prepare us for more capable xenobiotics later.
     
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  17. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    Always interesting and knowledgeable comments from you.
     
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  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Happy that you find it so. I only wish to say that this virus is unlikely to be our biggest enemy through years. But as viruses are so stupid, they underestimate their potential meatbag hosts.

    We can flip this game.
    ==
    Y'all heard of CRISPR? It is bacterias' way to edit out virus' genomic editing of them. We already opened that toolbox.
    This can be the century when human enterprise makes its play - beyond fake earlier shots - fire! agriculture! machines!! burn fossil carbon!
    It could happen.
    Viruses don't hate our work, they just access meatbags and keep earth things pretty much as they have been. We however want things to be different. We'll see how all that goes.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The liver converts methanol to formaldehyde and then to formic acid and formate, which are the nasties causing the damage. The methanol compound itself seems to be relatively harmless if not metabolized, and the kidneys will filter out. Ethanol can work has an antidote to methanol because it is the same enzyme in the liver converting the alcohols, and ethanol ties up the enzyme through competitive inhibition.
    Methanol toxicity - Wikipedia
     
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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was and remain more interested in detecting methanol:
    http://faculty.eicc.edu/sites/kjohnson/labbook/physicalscience/esters.pdf

    One of my chemistry experiment was synthesis of wintergreen using methanol. I don't remember if we used sulfuric acid to catalyze the reaction. Just I remember the wonderful smell from the reaction. But this begs the question of ethanol? Would it do the same and I suspect not.

    Bob Wilson