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Sad, but oh so true!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by FloridaWen, May 15, 2007.

  1. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Texas911 @ May 16 2007, 09:23 AM) [snapback]443416[/snapback]</div>
    If you're talking about McDonalds, it may have been too hard for them, or more likely just too hard for the slave wages (compared to what they'd been getting) they would be paid.

    Dave M.
     
  2. ibmindless

    ibmindless Member

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    The Big 3 have had countless chances to do the right thing and make QUALITY products that the public would buy, but instead they focused on the quick profit - year after miserable year. In the 50's, Detroit ruled, making bloated boats with NO safety features until the padded dashboard became an option. When VW's started to trickle in, they all laughed. But VW prospered over the next decade or so because they were reliable, safe (big frontal crush zone) and thrifty.

    But Detroit arrogantly laughed and paid very little attention to VW, except to manyfacture junk like the Falcon and Corvair in the 60's. When Toyota started selling cars in the US, they laughed some more. I remember the first Honda Civics - everyone thought they were ridiculous, but they kept advancing their technology, leading the way with their motorcycles. They helped to brand Harley Davidsons as junk. Meanwhile, Detroit kept cranking out irrelevant low quality crap through the 60's, 70's, 80's and beyond. All the while, Japan Inc. changed from being the copycats of auto technology to the leaders in developing advanced engine features and more.

    I always thought it was my patriotic duty to buy Detroit made cars until I just couldn't afford it anymore. I would pay hard-earned money for a US car, only to have it disinegrate (SP?) beneath me. When I finally bought an Acura Integra in 1997, there was no looking back. I had virtually NO PROBLEMS with the Acura, except for noticing a slight lifting of the interior driver's door panel at the armrest. A 1" by 2" area. Acura immediately replaced the panel without any further discussion.

    I brought it in, asked if there was some problem with the panel and they replaced it. They also checked the other door, found that it was separating too (I couldn't even see it), and replaced that one as well. ANd they gave me a loaner while they spent a couple of hours on the car.

    On the other hand, when my 1992 Ford Explorer was leaking tranny fluid, coolant, freon and oil, Ford accused me of abusing the car - with 3K miles on it. Thanks you Ford, you taught me a lesson I'll never forget - buy quality, buy Honda or Toyota.
     
  3. FloridaWen

    FloridaWen New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ibmindless @ May 16 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]443812[/snapback]</div>
    "ibmindless" (Mark) .... You said it like it was and said it oh so well............ :D
     
  4. sub3marathonman

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Many have already hit the nails on the head, but another aspect has been overlooked. That is GREED. And by that I mean short term GREED. And I mean the management, with the labor unions obviously saying that they should get some benefit too. So the CEO and management, in collusion with the board of directors, who of course are being paid by the management, agree to gigantic pay raises for the CEO and management. What a surprise. It didn't matter if they were making a profit in Detroit, they could make more in Mexico in the short term and that is all that mattered. Remember, they weren't going to be CEO and managers forever, just for the time it took for them to get their greed satisfied, siphon off the profits, and leave.

    The Japanese of course were looking at the long-term picture, with their culture combining to keep management and labor working together. The profits might not have been there at first, but eventually they would all benefit.
     
  5. Texas911

    Texas911 Member

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    Not all Japanese cars are the same. Mitsubishi isn't exactly the model of high quality.
     
  6. ServoScanMan

    ServoScanMan Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Texas911 @ May 16 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]443416[/snapback]</div>

    Doesn't the joint GM/Toyota plant in California have a union? And the highest energy cost? How do they make a profit?
     
  7. FloridaWen

    FloridaWen New Member

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    I ran across this while surfing the 'net:

    TOYOTA CITY, Japan - The plant at Tsutsumi aims to build 1,900 cars a day.
    When there's a problem, the music gets downright cheery.
    While you're touring the assembly area in Toyota's Tsutsumi auto plant, your mind keeps telling you that you've been here before. Then it hits you. It's a lot like the Snow White ride at Disneyland.
    Robotic cars filled up with wiper blades and other parts amble along a track in the floor, taking parts from the procurement department to other ends of the factory. So that workers don't back into them, the robots emit an upbeat four-note ditty as they burble about. Overhead, chairlifts that look like they came from Disneyland's PeopleMover bring doors from one side of the factory, where they get removed from their cars, to another, where they get reunited with their parents after getting fitted with handles and interior panels.
    Nearly finished Priuses, Camrys and Premios (a Japan-only car) progress on automated floor belts through the final inspection area, where workers look for paint scratches and check the lights. Elevators, conveyors and other machinery seem to be shuttling metal everywhere, but nothing moves faster than your grandmother's walking speed.
    Then there is the andon cord, a draping white cord that hangs overhead on both sides of every production line. When a worker sees a problem, he pulls the cord, which immediately stops his particular production line. In a U.S.
    factory, stopping production would be discouraged and would likely be accompanied by a loud, shrill alarm.
    Not here. An andon cord gets pulled every few minutes somewhere in the factory. And, instead of an alarm, a cheery song plays.
    "Each (production) line has different music. Sometimes you hear 'Happy Birthday,'" said Mika Kumazawa, who served as a guide during a visit to the factory.
    The almost complete lack of anxiety around stopping production with the andon cord--which has been the subject of several papers at MBA programs in the U.S.--has huge advantages. Only about 15 to 20 minutes of a full nine-hour shift arelost, and the defect rate on finished cars is close to zero, Toyota says. Most problems that I observed were solved within 10 seconds or less.
    Toyota rides high these days. The company saw car shipments increase by 25 percent in the U.S. in September, at a time when other major manufacturers--from both the U.S. and Japan--reported declines. Analysts believe that the company, ranked second now, will surpass GM in the next few years to become the world's largest car company although it could face problems with quality and customer satisfaction as it grows.
    Toyota accounts for 43 percent of car sales in Japan, excluding the minicar market, and 16.5 percent in the U.S.
    Push from Prius
    A lot of the credit goes to the Prius, one of several car models that come out of the Tsutsumi plant. The concept of a hybrid car that runs on an electric motor and a gasoline motor goes back about 100 years, said Yusei Higaki, a product manager in the global external affairs division at Toyota.
    (Related story: Toyota branches out into ethanol.) "The problem is that there was always a trade-off between performance and efficiency," he said.
    The first version of the Prius, introduced in 1997, suffered from the same trade-off, he acknowledged. But in 2003, the company substantially revised the design of the hybrid system so that the onboard computer could more readily switch between the electric motor (for accelerating) and the gas engine (for cruising speeds). As a result, the vehicle got good mileage and performed like a regular car.
    The timing couldn't have been better. Gas prices began to climb and celebrities such as Cameron Diaz and Leonardo DiCaprio turned the Prius into a status symbol. The status symbolism surprised Toyota, Higaki said. Toyota had not invested much energy or time, at that point, in marketing the car, he said.
    Sales climbed. They jumped from 28,083 in 2002 to 43,162 in 2003, and hit
    175,157 last year. Toyota's goal is to reach 1 million in annual hybrid sales in the first few years of the next decade.
    "The market is accelerating. Hybrid shipments from all manufacturers may hit to 400,000 this year," Higaki said, adding that Prius will account for most hybrids shipped.
    Manufacturing, plays a significant role too, though, and runs deep in Toyota's blood. The company likes to emphasize that it spends its energy on car design and factory efficiency rather than quarterly profit trends.
    Tsutsumi, which covers about 1 million square meters, is actually only one of 10 plants the company has here in Toyota City, an industrial town in the Aichi prefecture.
    Newly hired engineers and university graduates spend their first two months at the company on the factory floor and the next three months at a dealer.
    (Higaki found himself on an assembly line for a rack-and-pinion steering part and, for his sales training, went door-to-door extolling the company's cars to potential consumers in Japan.)

    Among other factory innovations, Toyota came up with doorless assembly, Kumazawa said. Removing the doors after painting and before final assembly, the so-called doorless system, reduces nicks and scratches. In all, it takes only about 20 hours to go from stamping out the first steel body parts to producing the finished car.
    Above each work area, a large sign tracks the factory's daily goal (around 1,900 cars a day for the Tsutsumi factory), the current output, and how closely the shift is hitting the goals. Typically, a group of workers is at
    97 to 98 percent of goal. If they hit 95 percent, concern begins to build, Kumazawa said.
    Like Dell, Toyota is one of the pioneers in just-in-time manufacturing.
    Whenever workers in the procurement area fill a bin with parts, they acknowledge the transaction by leaving a sheet with a bar code, called a "kandan," in the bin. When another worker scans the barcode, an electronic order is placed at a third-party vendor. In all, Toyota only keeps about two to four hours' worth of inventory on hand, and about 70 percent of the parts come from outside suppliers.
    Different cars and engines are assembled on the same manufacturing line. A Camry, might follow a Scion, which might follow a Caldina. This reduces the risk of inventory piling up, as Kumazawa explained. The exception is that gas cars and hybrids are assembled on different lines.
    Another concept you see on display on the floor is "jidoka," which roughly translates to "man and machine working together." In the vehicle assembly area, for instance, a dolly filled with parts and spare tools follows a worker as he walks from one end of his work area to another. (These are different from the motorized robots that scurry across the floor). Following the worker cuts down on wasted movement. The dolly also has sensors that will detect whether bolts have been put on too tightly or loosely.
    In another part of the plant, workers can use the "rakuraku," a sling-chair thing suspended from the ceiling that shuttles workers along as the car goes through the assembly line. Both the rakuraku and automated dolly were suggestions from assembly line workers.
    Overall, employees submit about 600,000 ideas a year--that's about 14 suggestions per employee--on ways to improve processes. The vast majority, Kumazawa said, ultimately get adopted. Employees receive bounties ranging from 500 yen (about $4.20) to 200,000 yen (about $1,680) for ideas that are implemented.
    As she explained this, someone pulled the andon cord in the engine assembly area. Work stopped. Music sounded.
    "This one is a Japanese folk song," Kumazawa said.
     
  8. boulder_bum

    boulder_bum Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nark @ May 16 2007, 12:59 AM) [snapback]443137[/snapback]</div>
    A couple of pickups were the top 2 sellers of 2006, but sales of gas-guzzlers are in heavy decline, and GM has less pricing power due to decreased demand. This article gives a good overview of what happened last year:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14803544/

    Excerpt:
    "When we did this list in mid-2004, Ford Motor's midsize Explorer SUV ranked sixth. No SUVs or vans grace the best-seller list today. Since 2004, an aging design and increasing gas prices have forced the Explorer off the list, and its sales have declined 31 percent this year — even though the vehicle is more upscale and refined than ever."

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Texas911 @ May 16 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]443416[/snapback]</div>
    Hmm, not sure I agree with you 100% there. GM employees do average about $2/hr more than non-union workers (not a huge gap), but Toyota is flat out better managed and more efficient. Toyota has better automation, faster production (GM used to take 10 hours longer to build a car than Toyota until copying Toyota's techniques) and managed to become the largest automaker while having a workforce that is 20% smaller than GM.

    Because of poor decisions, GM is stuck with factories pumping out poor-selling gas-guzzlers, and they are also stuck paying a lot of retiree benefits.

    You can blame unions for negotiating to have those benefits, but there's another question you'd be ignoring: why didn't GM's management set more money aside to cover the costs they knew were on the horizon?

    The problem, IMO, is that GM's CEO's (like a lot of American businesses) chase quarterly profits rather than having the foresight to make good long-term decisions for the company. This means that GM didn't save much money in the golden years in the 80's and 90's to appear more profitable for the shareholders, it means that GM sacrificed quality to improve margins while ignoring the long-term damage to their reputation, and it means they churned out SUVs during periods of rising gas prices because they were selling well at the time (when I think the reduced demand we're seeing today was an obvious and foreseeable consequence of our gas crunch).

    The irony of the situation is that Toyota's CEO makes about $1 million annually which is about as much as a GM VP. I think GM's CEO makes about $8.5 mill.

    Ah, American business. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Bendial80

    Bendial80 New Member

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    There's two Toyota assembly plants near where I live...one in San Ramon CA and another in Fremont CA. I support any company that adds jobs in the US, not to mention to my own community. Toyota also just plain makes the best cars on the road hands down :).