Rogue Toyota Dealers Price Gouging on 2010 Prius

As one who has been beaten to death by elderly buyers....save the tears. Elderly doesn't mean stupid.[/QUOTE]

YOu seem to be alive and well - but good for them. I say more purple hats! I've had a number of elderly friends taken because they are too polite to bargin, too trusting and "wasn't that a nice young man - he said we got a great deal"....... yeah for thousands more - not all elderly are rich....

It seems you have a problem with providing a good product for a good price vs a good product for as much as you can scratch out of them -

 

Not a rant...simple explanation for those on this site that seem to think they know how other people should be running their private businesses. Your entitled to chipping in your two cents...just don't expect people to pick up your pennies. The point of the program was two-fold...stimulate the auto industry with a quick hit program and also to replace lower mpg cars with higher mpg cars on the road.

And why are so many people so concerned that the elderly are being ripped off by car salespeople? I don't think I've heard of this happening in my entire life...maybe you have...once. I didn't say I would raise prices to take advantage of anyone...I would "set" prices at reasonable and profitable rates in accordance with supply and demand. Don't twist my words to make your point.

And I did not benefit at all from the C4C program...I am not a dealer, buyer or work for the auto industry. I purchased my 2009 Prius in March of this year by trading in a 2007 4Runner for trade value. So I have no bias towards buyers or sellers that participated...just don't agree with the "opinion" from people on this site that think they know what's best for private businesses...sound familiar...like $800 billion stimulus package familiar? What has the government meddling in private business done for El Cerrito, CA...last time I checked nothing...yet you want more government oversight to make sure dealers are being "fair." There's a place where you'll get what you want...on the other side of the globe in places like China, North Korea and Russia...happy trails!

 

Some people have different experiences, and thus different opinions and different thresholds of concern and sympathy. Some people are always going to be ripped off by unscrupulous salespersons, because they aren't experienced at playing the game, because they are too trustworthy, because they don't know how to get the information they need or just because they are more easily duped than the average person.

Nothing wrong with setting prices at reasonable and profitable rates, due to supply and demand. Some businesses and salespeople, especially in the new/user car industry, go far beyond that. If you've never heard of this in your entire life or perhaps just one time, you can find thousands more accounts on Google, perhaps some on this forum. One term that applies is slimy. I think the issue is that your definition of slimy from earlier in this thread varies considerably from how someone else may define it, perhaps due to a different set of life experiences.

As for the original post, the issue is when is are price adjustments reasonable and when is it gouging. Everyone will have a different opinion and it will vary from buyer to buyer, even at the same dealer. Some fools are justifiably parted from their money by skilled sales people. Others are parted from chunks of their nesteggs by thieves and con artists. Sometimes that happens the same transaction, and that concerns some people more than others.

 

The basic problem is that automobiles are one of the few remaining items for which we haggle in our society. We have become accustomed to fixed pricing, where the price is clearly displayed and non-negotiable. In some societies haggling is part of every transaction. Americans as a group are suspicious of haggling and fear being victimized by a predatory salesman. Automobiles, being a large and expensive purchase, make us particularly paranoid about this.

Tom

 

Indeed. Plus, many people are intimidated by the internet and even information in general. MSRP, invoice, rebates, kickbacks, financing, trade-ins, warranties, accessories, protection packages, you name it. It is a lot of numbers and math and can be very confusing, especially if you are paranoid about the process to start.

 

And where are all those great American companies now? Buying from China and India. Maybe there is more than profits to consider.

 

how many people complaining that a dealer who jacks the price of an in demand but in short supply product also espouse the virtues of a free capitalist system?

 

I always worry about claims that state "to the best of my recollection", meaning they are probably making it up. We have some of the nastiest Toyota dealers here in Central Florida, and none of them are charging any markup for the Prius. Heck, I found that some, like in Tampa are offering $500 below MSRP, but I didn't feel like driving that far from Orlando.

My father just bought a Prius in Arlington, VA and they actually have an automatic $500 off MSRP without asking! No markups.

I take this article and its claims with a grain of salt...

 

Not me, a Free Capitalist system is the most dangerous thing I can think of, it will doom any society that has it, the current crisis in this country was caused by trying to head to a Free Capitalist financial market for the financial industry.

 

Whaaaaat? What dealers in Central Florida have you been looking at? Toyota of Winterhaven, $3K over MSRP, it's right on their website. Lakeland Toyota, $2K over MSRP when I checked. Plus, with Lakeland Toyota at least, you've got to get the "Toyoguard" for another $700. Those are the only two dealers I've actually visited.

 

Reading comprehension issues? FWIW you were responding to a poster who several times has stated that he is in no way involved in the auto business.

But he was stating the true capitalistic philosophy; i.e. sellers should try to make as much money as possible and buyers should look to buy as cheaply as possible. When that occurs everything in Adam Smith's world is working well.

 

Not as far as the shareholders are concerned. The primary responsibility that all companies have is to the shareholders; i.e. maximizing the returns to the shareholders. Otherwise the company loses its focus and becomes a provider of jobs, social services and healthcare benefits, a la GM. When the protection of the owners takes a secondary position then owners get screwed in bankruptcy.

We've just seen this occur.

 

First of all, Toyoguard is a port option that either comes or doesn't come with a car. Just ask (as I did) for one without it. They seem to find it rather quickly when it is clear that you don't want a car with that option.

Both Winter Park and Orlando (near Florida Mall) Toyota are only charging list price. Winter Park has a slightly lower dealer prep fee, so I went with them. I checked COSTCO and they have discount agreements with Toyota Orlando ($200 off) and Toyota of Tampa ($500 off). That does vary by model, so no discounts if you want a Model V for example.

If you want a contact at Toyota of Winter Park, my sales guy was pretty good. I can hook you up.

 

It is times like these that demonstrate a dealer's ethics -- or lack thereof. Sadly, my experience purchasing a Prius this summer was miserable. I put a deposit on a 2010 Prius in late June, but got a call in late July that the dealer was unable to get me the car and was refunding the deposit. I can't prove it but have to believe that they realized that demand was outstripped supply, and they could get above MSRP for the car, rather than slightly below, with me. And this was from a dealer from whom I bought my 2005 Prius.

Then I found the car out of state, and made an offer, which was accepted. When I asked the rep if I could give him my credit card to secure the deal, he said he'd call me right back. But he waited a half-day, and then called to say that he sold the car to someone else, again, at a higher price.

Capitalism? Hardly! Just unethical business practices.

 

I guess this forum for the Toyota Prius GIII is becoming mainly a place to complain. And, certainly, newspapers sell well with a majority of negative news. But, I will stand up and tell you the majority of Toyota dealerships are doing a good job. REPEAT, I will tell you that the majority of Toyota dealerships are doing a good job.

 

Good Poine - what has the government done for business - let's see when manufacturers import tainted food, human and pet from China there is a cry for why isn't the government doing more. When US companies use Chinese companies that don't have the needed quality control and look the other way to make a quick buck they are just good capitalists. There is no perfect capitalist vacuum and the short term (sighted) companies that stampede overseas or screw their customers don't contribute to a working American capitalistic society. There is a balance, and the American companies manufacturing in China take risks with consumers lives and American manufacturing. Take a look at the last large TV maker in the US a good capitalist company undercut their prices with a money looser from China until the American factory went out of business - then of course, they could raise prices. Ethics are needed in capitalism it is not a system that works without out it. Thanks for raising the China syndrom.

 

Do I have to state the obvious? Nah.

 

Supply and Demand........And, how much are you willing to pay for a hot item.

When looking for my car, I called every dealer in a 50 mile radius everyday, and asked what they had available. One day, I talked to a dealer that said a truck just arrived, and he was heading out to see what was available. I told him I was looking for a Base model IV. He called me back from the lot, and said he had a IV being loaded off the truck right now. I said I wanted to put a deposit down on it over the phone, and I would be there after work to get it. He said he would call be back from his desk to get my deposit. When he called back, I asked again if it was a Base model. He replied, "It is base except for lo-jack and rust proofing package for $1600". I said I did not want that. He said, we add that to all our cars. I said, well.....It's not on the car now, it is just coming off the truck, I want it as is. He said it was not a option, they will add it. This is because they make extra money on that, and he was putting it on if I wanted it or not.

I then said, no thanks, and walked away from the deal. He let me walk away, because he knew he would find someone else who would take that extra charge in a few hours. A day later, I found another dealer with a IV. Because of this last experience, I made sure this had no additions before I put money down. I told the sales lady what happened to me the day before. She laughed and said, "Oh, you were talking to Oak Brook Toyota. We don't play those kind of games." She was right, as she named the right dealer.

Bottom line is one dealer added stuff that they knew they would be able to get extra money for, and they found buyers who would accept it. I was not one of those buyers, and I found my car elsewhere. However, I will never go back to the dealer that jacked up the price with a option I didn't want.

 

Just because you're willing to tell me that doesn't make it true. I think the evidence is overwhelmingly against you. Not to mention your extreme exaggeration of the amount of complaints on this forum.

Toyota has the worst dealerships I've ever dealt with in buying a car (the Prius was my first Toyota).

 

And there it is ladies and gentleman...the only answer you need to this thread.

A buyer looking for a car goes to Dealer A. Dealer A does not satisfy this specific buyers needs/price and the buyer goes to Dealer B and finds their needs met. Dealer A sells the car at their price to another customer at the higher price and Dealer B sells a car on their lot for a lower price. Dealer A happy, Dealer B happy, Buyer happy!

Breathe it all in...supply and demand...capitalism...the good 'ole USA...all parties are satisfied. Buy from who you want, sell to who you want...but don't complain when it doesn't work in your favor.

Imagine if we lived in a socialistic/communistic state and every Package IV Prius cost the same amount and every one had to have the rust protection included in the cost of the car. Would the same people complaining about "price gouging" then complain about something else...likely (but unfortunately their complaints would probably land them in jail for opposing government mandated programs, media, etc). The good 'ole USA...take it or leave it!