Featured Review of the 2018 Kia Niro PHEV

I accidentally bent the hood of one of those things in half.

 

No. The car doesn't have HVAC electric heat. If you want heat from the vents/floors, it can only come from the ICE.

Maybe you didn't view Tony's report? He had the ICE come on simply because the Auto HVAC was just a few degrees over ambient..... in July!!!! This won't be just a winter issue or a hardcore customer issue, it will happen very frequently.

Plug-in hybrid owners enjoy (demand actually) the ability to choose EV only driving or ICE assisted. GM listened and learned and has dropped the minimum temp. threshold that the ICE automatically starts THREE times over the years to satisfy Volt owners demands.

Yes, L2 charging provides better efficiency for pre-heating and cooling and is usually what pushes new owners (especially in colder climates) to upgrade from L1. Quicker charging is usually the secondary reason since the battery is small(er).

 

that is what pip does, solved by primes heat pump. if pip had a heat pump, i would be hard pressed to give up the hatch space and rear seat for the extra ev miles.

 

No, I prefer reading reviews over videos.

Hyundai is following the philosophy that Toyota had for the PiP; use grid energy to greatly improve the efficiency of an ICE car. If the engine hadn't come on for the heat, it would have come on for going too fast or accelerating too hard. The electric motor isn't much more powerful than a 1960's VW Beetle; the Prime's motors can supply 50% more power than the Niro's can. With a good chance the ICE will come on because of how the car is driven, one more reason isn't a big deal. Want to keep it in EV, turn off the auto A/C and drive it like it was a PiP.

It is a global car. North America was the last to get it and the Ioniq. EV only driving may not be the priority it is elsewhere, as it is here. The Prime doesn't have a true EV only mode outside NA. If such is important, this isn't the PHEV for you. That doesn't mean Kia made poor decisions. They just had different priorities than you.

 

Yeah, Toyota learned it too and went with the slam-dunk heat pump solution.

And I suspect many others. Most people buy plug-in's to avoid gas usage as much as possible; I think that's a safe generalization.

 

The heat pump solution would increase the the car's price. Using an even more powerful motor to allow more EV operation will increase the price even more. The Niro PHEV is already $800 more than the Prius Prime. The Ioniq PHEV starts a couple thousand under them, but the advanced driver's aids and safety features are optional.

 

sales will tell the tale.

 

After owning a true BEV I now see the PiP's no electric heater thing was a smart move. Electric heaters, even the heat pump variety, can kill range. The PiP would end up having like 5-7 miles of range during the winter, which is ok for a few, but not for the majority. Plus they saved a ton of money, thus making the car a bit cheaper for us in return.

 

Actually, the PiP has a small electric heater built inside the HVAC system.

 

i paid 30k for my base model, not sure how they saved me any money.

i think all the compromising is really what is keeping plug ins from skyrocketing. but that should improve with time.

 

So did the gen2 Prius. It was just for taking the freezing out of the vent air until the engine warmed up the coolant.

The higher prices of not compromising will also keep them from skyrocketing. Heat pump prices should come down as they are used in more cars, but they will always be more than an A/C compressor.

I don't think Toyota's heart was in actually selling the PiP, and put a large margin on it.

 

agreed. maybe they were testing the waters. eventually they dropped the msrp and discounted them like crazy, maybe to move what was left of planned production, or to satisfy carb. sorta how they started with prime.

 

How is the cargo space? Is it as roomy as say Rav4 hybrid? I like the crossover style for it's utility, but for our second vehicle, this car is probably not the one to pick without AWD. Search continues on.

 

The Prime was more poor planning in terms of numbers to each region. Plus there is the issue with the Southeast and Gulf distributors being independent.

With the PiP, Toyota was expecting bigger sales like GM did with the Volt. When they didn't appear, they decided to stop the full rollout and cut losses. Their is also their focus on the Mirai at the time.

The Rav4 is nearly 10 inches longer, and half foot taller, and a tiny bit wider. The height is mostly in the ground clearance; the Niro has a little better head room. The Rav has more cargo room, and could be a bit roomier in other dimensions.

I see Kai posts both a SAE and EPA value for interior volumes on their site. The difference in the passenger figures is just in rounding. The cargo behind the second row has a 2 to 3 cubic foot difference. EPA doesn't care about cargo behind first row. The PHEV doesn't have EPA values posted yet, I'm guessing they haven't been sign off on yet, but the others are identical to the hybrids. No space loss like between the Rav4 and its hybrid.

If you aren't in a hurry for a new car, I believe Kia is planning to bring AWD to the model.

 

And Toyota will have a new Rav4h out in 1Q'19 three months after the ICE version. Thus the deals to be had on current models.

 

prime was poor planning in more ways than one. still not a full commitment, but cheap, as john1701 would say. (okay affordable)
but outside cali, a 35k prime with no toyota rebate and no tax incentives? not sure that is going to fly.

 

Thanks for the info. With that dimension, RAV4 seems to be better in terms of cargo space and AWD, but I have to say I am not sure if I would consider 32mpg of RAV4 to be fuel efficient, especially after driving PRIME for a while. I have been looking for a "cheap" used pickup interim, but not finding any.

Yes, if I decide to go for a new car, I will definitely wait till the end of year. But reading up on new 19 RAV4 specs, I may be wanting that instead of 18 models.

I totally agree. I am kinda hoping Toyota will bring RAV4 PHV to the market with huge incentive like PRIME.

 

ironically, the more land barges everyone sells in cali, the more they are willing to drop their pants on plug ins.

 

Not only would you have had the added cost of the Heat Pump and/or resistance heater, they would have had to throw in a bigger more expensive battery to offset even a little bit of the range. You would have also lost cargo room as a result.

I don't think people that haven't owned a BEV realize how much of a penalty driving in very cold weather can have. Your range can easily be cut in half. That isn't an exaggeration. Have to remind myself of that during these summer months when I consider the short range Model 3. The short range Model 3 wouldn't be great for road trips in the midwest in the winter. Long range is doable though.

 

on top of regular cold weather range loss. but i don't recall people complaining about too much loss from the heat pump.