Response to Malorn's poll about Toyota and Economy

Actually, I find your presence here a little funny. Clearly you're just here to stir the folks up, and as far as that goes you're doing a good job. But back to your question... the notion that a person's choice to buy a Lexus over a Ford has a direct effect on "school districts, local governments, and many people" is a stretch.

You didn't answer my question.

 

Doubtful about the media.

You have no idea how many anti-hybrid anti-toyota comes across this forum that we debunk. The domestics and the car pundits are trying to drum up "anti-hybrid" sentiment by using misinformation...

You'd love it... but half the stuff the talk about is false, or highly exageratted. That's not the right way to "get that across the media."

Did you hear that? Most of the AMERICAN car pundits write nothing but misinformation about hybrids and the Prius in particular. Does that make you happy that they're trying to kill Toyota? We debunk a new article every week.... it's always the same thing. They complain that they get low mileage but they don't drive it for more than 1 tank, and they drive it like a maniac. They complain the battery is harmful and will be hard to replace, but don't mention that NiMH is the safest battery technology, and that Toyota already has a recycling program...

Good luck on your crusade. You're going to need it.

 

I am sure at some point in your life you took an economics course and heard about the multiplier effect. I built your ford and I was paid 1 dollar every time that dollar is spent it creates more revenue for governments through sales tax, etc. The same thing happens when a Toyota is sold, the difference is the dollar is transferred to yen and then multiplied throughout the Japanese economy.

 

most car pundits are trying to kill Toyota? What periodicals do you read. Certainly not USA Today and MR James "I love any Toyota" Healy.

 

If Ford and GM eventually go out of business it will be because of unfunded pesnion liablities and not because they cannot keep up technologically.

In the mean time real wages in the manufacturing have declined by about 25% since 1978 however Ford and GM have had to outsource to other countries to maintain parity.

As other nations industrialize we will eventually have wage parity. In the long run most of the problems we have will be resolved. They are more painful here due to falling wages and benefits.

It is not unpatriotic to buy a Toyota or any other vehicle. Ford and GM both benefit when you buy a foreign car, it lets then know that they have to do better if they want your dollars.

 

Look... people aren't in a situation where they have a choice between two cars that are identical for everything else, except one is Japanese and one is American and they only choose Japanese...

That's NOT what's happening out there. The simple fact is that if Japanese cars are selling better than American ones, it's because the Japanese ones are a better package, contain more features (safety features too) and is all around more appealing...

Flag waving shouldn't be a part of the equation. You shouldn't have to ignore all of an American car's faults just to pick a domestic car.

You have not addressed my assertion : If domestic car makers or YOU want domestics to sell more cars, then they need to make better cars...

Don't blame the media. Don't blame Toyota. There is no conspiracy. GM, for example, just needs to get their game together.

 

Just do a search in the news section. It's crawling with the nasty ones from all over the place... most of them are misinformation.

 

bingo.

That's thinking long term. For every dollar that you don't give to Ford or GM, that's a message that you're sending to Ford or GM that you want them to make better cars, so that NEXT time around you might consider giving that dollar to Ford or GM. We are encouraging Ford and GM to become more competitive.

It's shortsighted to think that the only way out is for everyone to buy American cars and give all of our money to the american car companies. ... that'll just lead to stagnation of the domestics again.

 

A certain period of adjustment is inevitable as the world rises to a uniform standard of living. Another 150 years, tops.

 

Or Boeing aircraft? Airbus has been shut out of the Japanese market, thus far.

 

Globalization is the harsh reality. I doubt that this point whether you can change everything and make the US self sufficient anymore. Everything is connected... everything is a part of the huge feedback loop of the global economy.

To even pretend that you can fight it on one specific front like automobiles is a fallacy. If GM wants to compete, they need more competitive vehicles. End of story.

 

I have to make this quick as I've been invited to the company Haloween party. Speaking of Haloween your topic is a good choice for tonight.

I actually have a B.Sc. in Computer Science and B.Sc. in Economics (Production and Operations Management). You really have to expound on "multiplier effect" son, as you defined it's too vague.

This sounds like the Hellfire and Brimstone crap from GM back in the early 80's when the clueless GM corporate management questioned the patriotism of the buyers, the "excessive" wages and benefits of their unionized employees, and the "dumping" of Toyota products on our shores.

I contract work for a very large global private engineering firm, which has offices in every major market. Including China, Japan, South Korea, India, etc.

Large companies are quite free to move the money around and find the best tax havens, and the best talent. Just because a company may PRETEND to be American, don't for one moment think it pays taxes here.

There are plenty of offshore tax havens that us mere mortals can only dream about.

So do a bit more research at your Chevy forum before pointing a finger at us. I have no sympathy for corporate GM as they made their problem.

How very ironic the coporate folks didn't cut their gold-plated salary and options, but expected the rank and file to cut their health benefits. Of course, GM blames their "excessive" labor costs for their current difficulty, not clueless management.

BTW: I hope GM doesn't go Chapter 11. It could cause a recession or worse.

 

IF Ford and GM go it will cause a very deep global recession and possible depression. What if it costs you your job Jayman?

 

Please stop trying to scare us. Just because you think the sky is falling and are quaking in your boots doesn't mean the rest of us have to too.

And honestly, Toyota isn't to blame here... it's business. If it causes a recession, it'll be a good home-grown recession caused by a good old American company, GM...

 

War is the wrong word to use. Collectively, we have strong economic partnerships with both China and Japan...

to use words like "war" is to use the same rhetoric as our politicians, and to slip into a the rhetoric of "if you're not with us you're against us"... and AGAIN with the "it's unpatriotic to buy non-American"

I'm sick of that. We are a global economy, and we can't expect Americans to monopolize everything. Globalization is great when we're the one's dominating, but it SUCKS don't it when we're in the receiving end?

<schwarzenegger> STOP WHINING </schwarzenegger>

 

What kind of economic partenerships do we have with China and Japan? Would you categorize it as a win-win or win-lose in a true economic sense? Global Economy is only brought up when questions are asked why so many jobs are being outsourced or record trade deficits with China and Japan are brought up. What part of globalization is the US dominating besides pop culture and fast-food?

 

Troll-boy,

I'll use small words so you have a better chance to get it.

"Global Economy is only brought up when questions are asked why so many jobs are being outsourced or record trade deficits with China and Japan are brought up. What part of globalization is the US dominating besides pop culture and fast-food?"

Um, the point of globalization is to make competition global. That means India gets lots of programming jobs because they do good work cheaper than other places. It means China makes American flags and Minnesota makes chopsticks.

You seem to be hung up on Toyota somehow being some sort of scary monster. Let me reassure you: Toyota, like GM is a corporation. They both exist for one reason only - to make money for their shareholders. Right now, Toyota is doing a good job of it; GM not so much. If this scares you, then sell your GM stock or go to the shareholder meeting and try to get the bum management thrown out.

As an entity, GM doesn't care about *anything* except profit. They will close and open plants wherever it will result in better profit. They will gladly tout their American-ness to Americans, IF it will mean more profit. You can be sure they talk about Opel's German-ness to Germans. Why? One guess.

Sure you can talk about the rise and fall of the American economy based on GM going belly-up. But GM is a global corporation and has lots of ways to make profit. It will take a really long time for them to actually fall over dead. I wouldn't hold my breath. In the meantime, they'll move Flint, MI jobs to Mexico and Buffalo, NY parts suppliers to China. Why? Sing along with me, you know the tune.

Sorry, champ - your economic analysis is a canard. By the time GM goes down, we'll have other work. Really.

Karl B.

 

Thank you for pointing out that Toyota and GM are Corporations and are in business to make money, I wasn't clear on that.
On your other point, you pointed out how the global economy works. USv goods are sold in China and Japan and they in turn sell us goods here in the United States. I believe in theory you are trying to pointout that over time this all evens out. My questions for you if that is the case how long has the US been running a trade deficit with Japan and what are the dollar amounts involved? I guess you say we are selling a lot of chopsticks to China so we are probably even or running a surplus with them.