Replace Hybrid Battery Questions

I give the reputable rebuilders the benefit of the doubt, that they are not leaving marginal modules in the pack.

The underlying premise of the rebuilding strategy was this: start with a used but overall good pack that only has a few bad modules, and replace those. This notion has appealed to all of us for years, but the practical results have been pretty poor, particularly given the prices charged.

 

[/QUOTE]I give the reputable rebuilders the benefit of the doubt, that they are not leaving marginal modules in the pack.
[/QUOTE]
I wish that were true but a lot of shops I talk to that have tried "rebuilt" batteries have had them die within weeks/months. Even the batteries from the biggest rebuilder out there are failing. Marginal crap is slipping through quality control and customers are suffering because of it.

 

Greentec is still offering recycled cores with new cells. do not know if it's bogus, but there it is:

Prius 2010-2013 | GreenTec Auto

The one thing I keep thinking is: it cannot be that hard to make a cell, to the original specification. Or maybe it is just due to the economy of scale, it's not feasible in the smaller volume of aftermarket?

 

Ok, I agree that the quality of rebuilt batteries is highly variable. If one takes care in selecting (don't use modules from a hot climate) balancing the 6 cells in each module (As jeff's $400 charger can do for the whole battery pack simultaneously), testing module capacity and resistance for matching among the 14 module pairs, and load testing each module, a rebuilt battery can have several years of useful life. I have a ReinVolt built with relatively young (at that time) Gen2 modules in my 2004 Prius that has been providing good service for more than 3 years and 75k miles so it can be done well. Of course, given the multitude of horror stories here on PC, There are few reliable vendors of rebuilt HV batteries out there. Useful alternatives are:

• DIY, requires a learning curve, but there is a lot of info on the process here on PC
• Get Jeff's charger which in a cool climate will significantly extend the life of your HV battery.
• Get a young, salvaged Gen3 battery and use its modules in your HV battery shell (I refer you to the above two statements to get an even better result).

JeffD (not the provider of the HV battery charger, but I would get one if my significant other would approve)

 

A grid charger would make sense if you are tight on money at the very moment. It will prolong the life of the battery until you can save up enough money for another battery/car. It's not a complete repair solution but a good way to give yourself some extra time.

A harness for the car only cost $100......if you can borrow/rent a charger. I think it would be a good business to sell the harness and rent out the charger for $100. For $200, I think it's a good gamble. If you decide to rent again after a year, it'll be another $100.....

 

Pretty strong stuff. Fraudulent advertising is illegal, and so is libel. That's why I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I'm defending the business concept as a whole.

 

I'd be happy to purchase a charger for weekly rental, but I'm not sure there is enough interest in it.
Plus, personally, it sounds like a lot of logistic hassles. But I'm always willing to help the community.

The harness itself is close to $150 with shipping. I only ever recommend discharge-ready systems
So if rental is another $100 plus shipping, it's more like $250 total to rent.

People can contact me privately, or let me know and I can set up another thread or something for discussion.

 

I respect your decision 100%. But what most of our customers do when this scenario happens (one or a few modules not coming back after reconditioning) is they buy replacements for just those modules from reputable sources for around $50 each. This is what the re-builders are doing and charging >$1k for.

It doesn't make sense to me to throw away the rest of the battery pack if only a module or two is bad. If it helps, I am happy to refer my customers to a good source for tested used modules.

 

Jeff,

This PCer lives in LA and in a warm climate the modules do all age at an accelerated rate (typical PA080 at about 150k miles). Those of us that have found that most of the modules in a failed HV battery are still usable tend to live in a cooler climate without a lot of mountain driving (typical PA080 after 200k miles and your charger would have made it last significantly longer). The odds are that he would have to replace all of his modules with those salvaged from a low mileage Gen3 Prius (there is no reason to do a rebuild with the older Gen2 modules any more) to get a reliable battery.

If a rebuilder is just replacing failed modules in a Prius from a warm climate, the result will be a short-term repair.

JeffD

 

Reasonable analysis, if you know for sure that a NAPA battery failure can be swapped for free.
Are you able to tolerate a failed battery with minimal aggravation, and very low opportunity costs* ?

*As in, do you have to rent a car while the Prius is not running, or impose on somebody else ?

Seems to me the harness would be part of the rental.

People can just organize into groups of 4-5 people and share: keep for at least two weeks and then send on to the next person who wants it. The old-timers at PriusChat probably trust each other enough to easily work out the details. They might also collect data worth sharing.

 

The harness is a 1 time installation item that stays in your car, probably 2 hr install time required. Then you would plug the charger in whenever you need to charge.

Rentals only makes sense if the math works out. If the rental cost is 2/3rds the price of buying, nobody would bother renting.

 

Paul from Boulder has a video up showing complete removal of the battery from the car in about 500 seconds
However, anybody who wants to pay for and keep a harness can do so.

 

So how much is install through a Toyota dealership? Be sure to phone a few.

 

Can't blame them I guess, it is a dangerous item.

 

Depends on the place Mike. There are those that are willing to ship it. A sale is a sale, right?
I can get a new one sent to you, but shipping to/from isn't free.

Call if you want to discuss.

Oh wait. Sorry. I see you want to pick it up.
Again, each dealer makes a choice of who they want to sell to.
I guess yours doesn't want to make money on non-Toyota sales.

Some dealers wont even sell to hybrid techs like me. Which makes me laugh. They are missing out on sales.

 

Call Olathe Toyota, in Olathe, Kansas. Maybe they will sell to you w/ a will-call pick-up? Their price of $1941.50, makes refurbished purchase foolish. If they do, bring the core!
Search for OEM Toyota and Scion Part Numbers Online

Googlemaps says Olathe, KS to Prairievill, LA is 778miles/~13hrs.

I wonder if one raised a stink w/ Toyota Corporate and the respective State automotive regulating agency about the absurd dealer claim, would the dealer speak a different tune? You can buy the Prius 12V battery over the counter w/o any issues, and the 12V battery can't be shipped due to a HazMat labeling as well. Does the dealer check to make sure the consumer has a valid State Automotive repair license at the time the 12V battery purchase? What about brake parts? This would pose a greater risk to public safety than the HV Battery. Poorly installed brakes could endanger the public. HV Battery mis-installation, you'll probably just electrocute yourself. What about struts/shocks? What about airbags? All kinds of parts to play dealer absurdity with.

What were the two dealers that were being retarded? I want to give them shite for the absurd claim.