Red triangle and hybrid warning light, and Check engine light illuminated! Please help!

Honestly, I have no confidence in the dealer and their ability to diagnose a bad 12V battery. I have seen numerous threads/posts on here and other hybrid forums that people say "the dealer said my battery was fine". For one thing, your Prius is not concerned with CCA but Ah or Amp hours. For him/her to tell you the CCA tells me he/she's not that sharp on the ins and outs of a Prius.

I'm not trying to be obstinate here so pls bear with me (I am trying to help you). Here's what we know:
1) The 12V battery is the original battery in your car. Pba (lead acid) batteries usually last about 5-7 years max. Yours is 12-13 years old, its not suprising that it read 10.X Volts (and I'll bet that's what it reads now also). Lets throw out what the dealer said and take another measurement on your battery (because everything points to it being bad (including the lack of strong turbulence in the inverter reservoir)). It appears to me that your battery cannot sustain a charge beyond a surface charge.

2) A weak 12V battery will cause the exact symptoms you describe (and many more).

3) You don't need an install kit for $50 from the dealer. You can order the battery and replace it yourself (very simple).

 

Keep us posted on the progress

 

Just a newb question as I am following numerous threads. Can he just put in any 12V battery that will fit the space say from an Auto parts store? As was stated, the dealer wants $270 and one can get the best one or even an optima battery for just over $100. Are the posts or connections different in some way?

 

Yes, the posts are smaller and the battery is smaller as well. Additionally, it is vented to the atmosphere, via a vent tube, unlike most normal 12V batteries. He could temporarily mount any battery in there just to prove that's his problem but, I wouldn't recommend that as a permanent fix.

 

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT CONNECT THE JUMPER CABLES WRONG AND REVERSE POLARITY. THIS WILL CAUSE MAJOR PROBLEMS FOR YOU!!!!!!
No it will not work to do that. Hooking jumper cables to a dead battery simply places a huge load on the "good" battery and will not allow a transfer of voltage to the dead battery. The battery likely has a dead cell and will not take a charge. Just like a conventional vehicle with a dead battery, even when you jump it, it still doesn't start (same deal here). What you could possibly do is disconnect the bad battery completely and remove it from the car, run jumper cables to the disconnected battery cables in the car and then start your Prius. This should provide enough juice to start your car. Be careful and don't take the warning above lightly.

 

Keep in mind the voltage might read ok, even if it does, that doesn't mean you have a good battery. The battery's ability to sustain a voltage under load is the true measurement of whether or not its good. If it were me, I would 100% replace my 12V battery regardless of any readings period.

Where are you located btw???

 

Just to ward off any possible confusion ...

Toyota has used two different 12 V batteries in the Gen 1. The original one, made by GS, had small Japanese terminal posts and a capacity of 28 Ah if I recall correctly. In October of 2003 they issued a service bulletin that anybody having capacity issues with the original battery could swap for a larger one made by Panasonic in S55D23L size. That swap required an upgrade kit that changed out the tray/holddown and the terminal clamps to fit the larger posts. I think Toyota will still sell you either battery depending on what you want. The present incarnation of the larger, Panasonic battery (28800-31290) has 51 Ah capacity on the label, probably as good as anything you'd find to fit in the space, but it's priced at a premium.

So, if the one you take out says GS, a new GS will be the easiest replacement to fit. If the old one's the Panasonic, then the tray and terminal upgrade was already done, and a new Panasonic will be the easiest one to fit. If you want the higher capacity replacement but what came out was the old GS, then the upgrade hasn't been done yet and you'd want that kit (it's not much money) along with the battery.

If you want to go with batteries from other suppliers, the dimensions and terminal size that you need still depend on which of the two battery options you found in there to start with.

In any case, please be sure to get a battery that has a vent-hose fitting, and be sure to reattach the hose and check that the lower end still goes through the grommet in the trunk and outside (kind of defeats the purpose if it doesn't).

-Chap

 

Ah, I think we forgot to warn you that the two bleeders attach at different spots in the coolant circulation. The driver's side bleed is on the higher pressure side downstream of the pump, so when you open it, air and fluid will pump out. The one on the passenger side sees the lower pressure at the suction side of the pump, so if you open it while the pump is running you won't see anything come out, because it's only sucking air in. So by alternating the two you were just sort of giving yourself work.

That's why the manual gives a more tedious procedure where you always turn the ignition off before opening a bleeder, let some air out, then close the bleeder and turn the pump back on, and repeat. But then that's harder than it has to be, too: it's perfectly fine to open the pressure-side bleeder while the pump's on, and you can also bleed from the suction side with the pump running, as long as you have a way to apply a slight vacuum on the bleed hose - anything over about ten inches of water should be enough to overcome the pump suction, which means it should be enough to just use a long enough hose to siphon down to a jug on the ground. (But you might want to prepare with some soft thread sealant for the passenger side bleeder, without which it may suck some air in around the threads while you're paying attention to the hose.

The difference in battery price quotes you were given makes me wonder if some of them were for the original spec battery and some for the -31290 upgrade battery ... that would put them both in the ballpark. Again, the only way you could need the $50 upgrade kit was if you had the orig. battery before but you want to switch to the upgraded one. Otherwise, you'll either stay with the smaller battery and not need the kit, or the upgrade was done in the past and you don't need the kit 'cause it's already there.

-Chap

 

My understanding is the usual inverter pump failure mode is no noise or motion. What you are describing suggests:

• blockage
• air in the pump

Regardless, no fluid flow, no cooling of the inverter. Although normally the car detects the overheating and turns it off. But like a reserve parachute, there is no guarantee . . . just hope.

Please put your tickle charger on the 12V again and measure the voltage after it shuts down. You want to see ~12.8V in a new battery with no load other than the trunk open.

When (if) you get the car to run again, measure the 12V circuit. If everything is working, we would expect to see 13.8-13.9V. If not, the 12V DC-to-DC converter is toast (i.e., time to replace the inverter.)

Need to find out if the inverter coolant loop is blocked or just air-locked. If I had to do this, I would try to use air-pressure to blow it clean. But wiser heads may have better method.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Well not sure if I am correct ,but you may have 2 issues. One, the coolant pump still has air in it or its blocked. 2 it could be that the invertor 12 volt system is not recharging the battery,hence the reason it shut off due to low 12 volt. Where are you located? there is a chance somebody may be close to you and could help you out. ..keep us posted. FYI you could keep a charger on the 12 volt battery and than try to bleed the air out of the system. I usually leave the key on engine off and play with the 2 screws till i get it bled out. With the charger on the battery it will also eliminate one of the 2 reasons the engine shuts off.. invertor hot or battery voltage low..

 

I def agree with yota, it looks like two problems to me. You def don't seem to be charging your 12V battery and that's why you're having all the problems.

I have to be truthful here and say apparently some of what I said in previous posts on this thread were wrong. It appears as if his original, 12 yr old 12V battery may not have been bad. It looks like I jumped to an improper conclusion based on my personal observations with dealer techs. I find myself wanting to say something like "its prudent to replace it anyway" but, I don't even know if that's the case here. I do know that some of the advice I gave was likely wrong and I feel terrible about that. I hope I didn't cause the OP too much trouble.

But now, we do know that we have a good 12V batt. and we still have the same problem so, let's keep trying to fix it (if you still have any confidence in what I say).

Pls run this test, charge the 12V battery to full (unhooked from the car), turn the car to start and release, if it starts, go back to the trunk and measure the voltage at the battery or at the fuse box jump point. It should read about 14. Report the results here. If it reads below 13, I would suspect the 12V charging circuit in the inverter is bad (that's one problem).

The other problem we have is the lack of circulation in the inverter coolant loop. If the pump is running then blockage and air are the two likely culprits.

The stable 12V battery/inverter problem should be tackled first (in my humble opinion (and much more humble now)).

 

Regarding DTC P3191, try cleaning the throttle body interior and throttle plate using throttle body cleaner. Don't contaminate the mass air flow sensor while doing this process.

If there is no turbulence in the inverter coolant reservoir but you hear the inverter coolant pump running, then you know you still have air in the inverter coolant loop and this must be fixed before you drive the car.

 

No turbulence has to be fixed at all costs. I would address this first. My question is, are you 100% certain the inverter coolant pump is running? If so then you need to follow the procedure to bleed that loop until there is no air in the system. It takes a lot of patience.

Judging by those readings, yer inverter is working fine so that's good.

Good luck