red bullet for the 5th gen prius

Oh ChapmanF….

Do you even own a Gen 5?
Have you even worked on a Gen 5?

I am always amazed by you and love you to Death from you popping in on random threads on PC to give in your 2 cents

Honestly if you can answer those questions I will be quite impressed

 

I can answer 'em both. I'm also sure you can answer the question posed in #60, without waiting for any answers from me, as it doesn't depend on them.

Do you think that the photo you posted in #58 does not show a Quantum solenoid on the exhaust and an OE 13090-25010 on the intake? By all means, show where I goofed. You've just had a gen 5 right there in your shop, so this should be easy, right?

 

I am referring to your last paragraph. You are commenting on something in which you have no real world experience.

 

So what matters is whether the comment is right, not who made it or any other distraction.

Here's a short paragraph:

"In post #58, RightOnTime has replaced the exhaust timing solenoid in a gen 5 and touted a smiling-customer effect that in previous gens has been attributed to replacing the intake timing solenoid."

Is that short paragraph correct, or not? If it is not, where is it wrong?

That's a factual question, and nothing about it depends on whether I've ever been in the same time zone as a gen 5 or not.

 

I still don’t understand your point. This is an exhaust solenoid period as posted from the pictures.

What I am a little disappointed in you is that you have no real world experience on the Quantum. It is actually sad that many people rely on your knowledge but you have no hands on experience.

Still waiting on my questions to be answered but we all know the answer…..


iPhone ?

 

Glad you finally acknowledge that. Only took to post #65, while @Hammersmith has been pointing it out since post #3 on the first page of this thread.

This is progress! Now we all see @Hammersmith was right in this post:

... which you originally deflected with:

So, good. All those years of PriusChat discussions about Red Bullet or Quantum solenoids for gen 3 and 4, filled with a certain story about how changing the intake cam OCV brings such-and-such benefit.

And here we are in a thread for gen 5, and there's no replacement on offer for the intake timing controller, but for gen 5 there is one to go on the exhaust camshaft instead.

If we've all agreed up to that point now, just seems to be one question left:

So is the story now that it doesn't matter whether you change a fancy solenoid for the intake timing (like all the previous gens) or change it for the exhaust timing and leave the intake unchanged, it gives you the same big smile magic?

 

I posted up several pictures of the exhaust Solenoid and you need to quit dancing around the question that I asked….

YOU are talking about this ‘Fancy’ solenoid where you have decided from your our own conclusions that it does not work.

It’s very frustrating for me because you and others have decided on your own without even experiencing the Solenoid in action.

WE all know you don’t own a Gen 5 or actually work on cars for a living, so I will let that slide for the time being….

You are a very important Contributor to Prius Chat but you need to stay in your own Lane and let the true Mechanics share their experiences.

 

Is there any publicly available third person, unbiased dyno results of before/after any of these solenoids?

I seem to remember these solenoids initially boasted they provided improved performance by actuating more quickly. That 'basis of how it works' was disproven by another member using an Oscope, showing there was no improvement in actuation speed.

Certainly, someone, somewhere has put these on a dyno. We had a couple members who said they were going to, in order to quiet the naysayers, but I don't think that ever happened.

 

You posted pictures of the solenoid in #47 and #58, both times without acknowledging it goes on the exhaust. When Hammersmith pointed that out in #52, you changed the subject to the length of his paragraphs, and when I pointed out in #60 that your own photo shows it on the exhaust, you changed the subject to whether I own a gen 5. But finally, in #65, we do have your own words confirming it's on the exhaust. So okay, however long that took, we've all got it now.

You don't like 'fancy'? How about 'modder', then? Need a word that conveys (1) it's not the OEM part, (2) it's marketed as being something better, not just aftermarket/cheaper. 'Modder' seems to do the trick.

So the situation is still: after years PriusChat discussions debating the benefit of these modder solenoids applied to the input valve timing, here we are in a gen 5 thread talking about applying them to the exhaust valve timing (and finally, in the fourth page of the thread, acknowledging that fact instead of changing the subject each time it comes up).

It doesn't matter what my opinion of the product's usefulness is. Every reader who might be thinking of buying one is going to have to form an opinion yea or nay. Asking questions is part of that, and pretty much always happens without "experiencing the Solenoid in action" first. That's the way this works.

When until now people asking questions have been given answers about the intake timing, but now the product isn't going on the intake, "how does the explanation now relate to the explanation before?" is a fair question. Anyone is allowed to ask it, with or without "experiencing the Solenoid" first.

Also, "why would you only in #65 stop changing the subject when that fair question is raised?" becomes its own fair question that anyone is allowed to ask.

And of course you're certainly allowed to answer either one, or both.

 

There are too many factors to Dyno a Prius to get constant results:

State of charge of traction battery
How healthy the engine is
Traction Battery Health
EGR System Health


You got to try it out yourself…..


iPhone ?

 

I still don’t understand that you have this strong opinion when you never tested the solenoid yourself?

You are also good at long paragraphs to make your point but stay on the subject and don’t dance around my question.

You have no clue that it works based on your theories.

Just let It go ChapmanF…….

 

Let’s just end this debate now

If you are interested in a test we have a loaner program. Also if you happen to be in SoCal and have 5 minutes of your time we can have you test drive your GEN 5 with the solenoid.

Let’s just leave it there and to everyone have a nice day!

Quantum Solenoid for Toyota Prius 2023-2025

 

"When you never tested the solenoid yourself" is where every reader starts when deciding whether this sounds like something worth buying or not. They'll read up on what it's supposed to do, who has said what about it, and maybe even ask questions about what they've read.

Hammersmith pointed out that the products in this thread are going on the exhaust cam, when all the earlier PriusChat discussion was about what good the products are supposed to do on the intake cam. Any reader can fairly ask "what gives with that?"

No matter if the reader's already leaning positive, leaning negative, or right in the middle of making up his or her mind. Fair question from anybody.

"Why did RightOnTime so repeatedly change the subject when the move from intake to exhaust was pointed out?" is another fair question. Anybody could ask it. Nobody would have to, if you hadn't kept changing the subject like that.

 

Have you personally tested the Quantum Solenoid install in a Gen 5 Prius?

If so, please describe the difference that you felt versus the stock solenoid. In your opinion, is the difference in what you felt worth the $450 cost of the Quantum solenoid?

 

Are there any straight line tracks still in Cali? Maybe that would be the best way to test it. Before and after in a real car on a real surface.

You have a deal for one for a Gen 2?
I have a spot on our local highway system where I can probably do a 1/4 mile test every morning when I drive to work. I have a pretty standard morning routine, so there would be practically no variables other than weather. Do a week of (new?) OEM, a week of aftermarket, OEM and then aftermarket. That would be like 10 runs on each, with GPS data, if I can find my OBDLink and get a new battery for 'car' phone. Could probably even do a week of 'old, 150k mile OEM' to get baseline before using the new OEM. Will have to look at prices on this. See if it's reasonable, since it would be hard to justify spending significant $$ for something I don't need.

 

haha.

@ChapmanF and @TMR-JWAP you're both rockstars...

 

I'm genuinely curious, because even though there is o-scope evidence the "Red Bullet" solenoid didn't do what it claimed, there's an awful lot of seat-of-the-pants that says something is happening. The only way I know of to prove one or the other is to actually prove it in real life using recorded data.

I had a 1989 5.0 Mustang that every company in the world offered performance improvement items. Many offered a module that piggybacked between the A9L engine ecu and the car wire harness, claiming to add power due to recurving the timing, fuel, etc. It also came with a 'timing bar' that had to be installed in the distributor, which advanced the base timing, requiring a change to the minimum octane fuel you could use. I'm pretty sure the timing bar did more for 'power improvement' than the module did. In the big picture, like most "improvements", I doubt the overall result was worth the investment. Bolt on "improvements" rarely live up to the hype, unless significant additional real tuning is performed.

 

A person setting up a serious experiment might not jump right to the dyno, though. What makes the o-scope test attractive: it's directly testing what the thing is claimed to do; fewer variables, less to control for, therefore able to reach result significance with a lot less repetition and analysis. When the claim for something is "it achieves B by doing A" and "does it do A?" has a good clean test, a negative result there tells you a lot.

If just one person, or a couple people, reported a negative result there, and there's still an appetite to show a benefit, there could be choices how to proceed:

1. Have more people replicate the "does it actuate more quickly?" o-scope test. Maybe not enough people have done that, and got unlucky results. More tests could find out it does actuate more quickly after all, and even show how much more quickly. That would be great info to add to the conversation.
2. Hit the drawing board to think out any other way it could achieve dyno improvements besides by actuating more quickly.
3. Just look for dyno improvements anyway, without having shown any way it could achieve them.

A good experiment designer would probably put them in just that order of preference. Showing it really does actuate more quickly, and by how much, would be kind of the gold standard, and if followed by an adequately-designed dyno test showing the results on the road, that would be very convincing.

Or pinning down some other way it could improve performance, even if it doesn't actuate more quickly, could offer other fruitful tests to make, and an encouraging reason to go on to dyno tests.

Just going on to (3) let's run dyno tests, without either (1) or (2), probably isn't something good experiment designers would be eager to do. They understand too well that when you go looking for an effect you haven't shown any reason to expect, you can find it some % of the time anyway, and later read about yourself in how-not-to-design-experiments articles. Nobody's favorite claim to fame.

 

Sounds like a good idea ... swap out a Toyota VVTi Solenoid for a Chinese one ... to allegedly add 3% more horsepower? How would it work with the electronically driven variable pressure oil pump - which is what changes the timing on the exhaust side (up to 41 degrees) ... since this aftermarket part only affects the intake side. How would it communicate with the ECU? How would this theoretically be any better than what is already on the vehicle? As with most decisions on an engine build, harmony must exist between all parameters. If we modify one valve timing event the possibility exists that a sequence of repercussions could notably affect engine performance negatively?? BTW they say they are "out of stock" on the website. I would guess that some more R&D needs to go into that, and some data harvesting with empiricism needs to be interpolated, presented, independently tested etc ...

 

15330-21011 Valve Assy, Camshaft Timing Oil Control 2000-2018 Toyota. Replaces 15330-21020, 15330-21010.

$97 at my local Toyota dealer. I think I can swing that!! If it makes no difference on the 150k mile 2007, I can install it on the 350k mile 2006 and see if it makes a difference.

That'll give me something to do this weekend or next. Should probably clean its filter also and fresh oil change, which is due in 600 miles anyway, so that's pretty good timing. Just need to get my OBDLinkLX and 'car-testing' phone back in service.