Featured Real-World Electric Vehicle Fueling Costs May Surprise New EV Drivers

Sometimes I had multiple stops during the day including lunch, dry cleaning, pharmacy, groceries, e.t.c. As a general rule of thumb in Huntsville, the BMW could handle up to about 10 stops before running out of electricity. It is just a characteristic of Huntsville and the 72 mi EV range of the BMW. In contrast, after my each way, 10 mile work commute, the Prime only had enough EV range for one stop, a '3 stop' EV.

Bob Wilson

 

There are what, 8 states with electricity costing more than $0.15/kwh. That is equivalent to $2.40 gasoline in 50mpg compared to a tesla model X (without upgraded wheels) for price of fuel. It leaves plenty of money to install a evse unless its an old house. Of the 8 states, you need to throw out California and Hawaii because of its expensive gasoline a plug in will cost less to fuel. That leaves us with Alaska which makes perfect sense and cold weather will probably hurt mileage more for a plug in than a gasoline only vehicle even though if you hit epa electricity costs less than gasoline there.

Only New England states of Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont are in a possibly more expensive than an equivalent gasoline vehicle. In these cases its probably worthwhile for potential owners to use their real prices if its a concern.

For the other 95% of the US population outside of new england other factors than cost of fuel is important.

 

I see now. You worked a full day and after a 20 mile round trip commute you drove another 54 miles each day doing 10 or so errands. That's why it made no sense to me. I don't recall ever doing ten errands on a work day except when I was doing some renovation work on the house. At 15 minutes per errand and 2 hours of driving, that's an extremely long day.

 

How can you throw out the state with 40% of all of the BEVs in the USA? That makes no sense.

 

We can throw it out for any study pretending that electricity costs more than gasoline. It is not even close. Please think through when you need to do a calculation.

You live in California. Do you have solar? How much did it cost? How long will it last. If not have you looked into electricity rates. How much are they. What are gas prices. How much will gas rise in the future.

Please plug in your own numbers and tell us how much more a plug-in will cost to fuel. If its less, well you will know why I told you you don't need to do the calculation.

The prius prime is a plug-in, I would definitely say if you are charging it, then it qualifies ;-) YMMV.

 

Sorry Austin, but you're not making much sense. Yes, the electricity cost is higher than you seem to think. My best rate during the winter is 19 cents a kWh, but mid afternoon to midnight it's 37 cents per kWh so I can't fully leverage the scenario of recharging after every afternoon errand. During the summer the rate is even higher. Back in June it topped out at 50 cents per kWh. As you can see, the cost of electricity changes frequently.

I don't have solar. I'd like to, but they won't install it without tearing off and replacing my steel shingled roof.

Gas prices also vary wildly.

So going by the max of $.50 per kWh, the best BEV is more expensive than the best ICE with the worst gas prices.
Going by the best price of $.19 per kWh the best BEV is about even with the best ICE or HEV with the best gas prices.

 

Remember the BMW EV only mode is hard EV. In contrast our PP had a softer EV mode that I found out after purchase.

Every time the PP engine came on, I was pissed off again. Then the 25 mi EV range was too short relative to the 72 mi BMW EV range. Our PP became driveway sheet metal art.

Bob Wilson

 

This has probably already been discussed ( I don't have time to read the entire thread )...but am I the only one that thinks a PHEV is a great choice because it allows you to choose your fuel? Same idea as 'alt fuel' for ICE vehicles...more choice seems better, eco considerations notwithstanding.

 

This was the post that was replied to -

My reply was about california not new england. Please don't take it out of context. I clearly mentioned your region in my post.

If you have a bev how often do you need to charge before midnight? I can easily set time for charging on mine. Obviously with a prime you can not store a full days charge for your driving behavior. The problem is not price of electricity. You have a prime if it matters all that much use gasoline. I am sure you can figure these things out for yourself. But yes if you have a small battery you can find scenarios where things don't work. I'm sure if I had to use a non tesla plug on a road trip the cost for that trip might be higher.

Average price of gasoline in California is $4.66 average price of electricity is $0.20/kwh. YMMV depending on your utility and where your gas station is located.
Compare Side-by-Side


On a new car a prime gets 54 mpg or 133 mpge, a tesla model 3 gets 142 mpge, a tesla model x a much larger cuv gets 105 mpge. On gasoline if you get epa that prime will cost 0.086/mile, or electricity would need to cost more than $0.34/kwh a tesla model 3 standard range even more. You can get there if you only charge at peak times, but why are you doing that. If you compare it to a model X or a id.4 or something quite far from the most efficient it will cost more. On the model X electricity would only have to be above $0.27/kwh. Still if you tried even a little bit you could charge it for less ;-) on average.

The big problem is the teslas is price, as they are in such high demand as is the rav4 prime that prices are rising. Its not the fuel cost. Tesla actually produced more cars than any analyst expected but were able to raise prices and have a large backlog because demand is so high.

The prius prime simply doesn't sell well. It is a good solution for many, but they are choosing other vehicles.

 

Here in NW Montana gasoline runs around $3.50/gallon - while the hydroelectric plant's Co-op charges us around 10¢/kWh for electrons. A no brainer which fuel we prefer.

 

not sure how comfortable someone should be with electricity costs averaged by state. That really skews results. Consider that some states have scores of times more people than less populated states? That skews electricity cost much higher when the average is tallied per user rather than 50 or 52 state/regions. Same considerations can be made for gasoline as well.
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You are not the only one. I have experienced an oil embargo with it's attendant rationing and shortages. I'm quite aware that I have a choice between gas and electrons when they start talking about a planned 3 day power outage or price hikes because a refinery caught fire.

When we finally get the roof replaced we will add solar, which makes the car independent of the normal infrastructure.

Surprisingly, I find that a 25 mile battery pack is enough for my uses. A couple of modern solar panels would be enough to top off my car daily.

 

There are lots of variables in CA not discussed.
First, most areas have tiered rates, so "average" electricity rates don't make sense since your car charging is on top of your normal home use.
Second, CA is good for solar...so you can easily get rid of your lower tiers and replace that with your car charging OR you can get TOU pricing.
Third, many businesses offer free charging...or an hour or two of free charging per day.
Fourth, the car pool stickers. If you have a long commute you'' gladly pay the $0.28 (I think) Supercharger (if you don't have solar or free work charging) based on the time savings.

Gas prices are high and who wants to use a stinky gas station?

Mike

 

The major power companies (PG&E, SDG&E) are mandating TOU and Cal Edison has a tiered rate with rates of $.26 -> .34 ->.42 . Those rates are based on a 'base level' of as little as 11.4kWh per day. Once you exceed that for the month the rates go up to the next tier. When you hit 4 times that base, the rates go up to the highest price for every watt you use.

Last I looked, PG&E had 40 or 50 different tariffs (price plans) in use. They have made it quite complex.

 

The answer to your question was in the line you quoted.

@Salamander_King started this thread because he has a valid issue with most EV to ICE cost comparisons. They've had cheap gas and expensive electricity for most of the time they've had a plug in. I posted the electric rate map to show that isn't an concern for a large portion of the country.

Yes, California has high electric rates, but it also has high gas prices. Compared to Maine's currently high gas, it is about a dollar more a gallon. Fueling costs are high across the board in California, which means it doesn't fit the low gas and high electric situation in New England. On top of that, it sounds like California is more favorable to home PV installation than Maine.

This is where more info on the grid is needed beyond the price per kWh. It is also the point where the individual's route and PHEV model become more important.

UCS's Cradle to Grave map is a good start.

A FSP plug in on electric may not best a PP on electric and gas in Maine, but there is a good chance a plug in that let's you drive all your regular miles on electric will mean lower carbon emissions than the PP for you now, even if it is less efficient.

This is true, but has flaws and bias like those typical EV to gas comparisons. How many gas cars with a rating over 53mpg aren't a hybrid? Has hybrid sales in the US suddenly increased?

Many people getting a Model 3 were likely looking at a non-hybrid that has a MPG in the 30's. Some of those considered models call for premium gas.

Oh, that is a big plus for PHEVs. Getting the best of ICE and BEV also means getting the worst of both though. A PHEV brings in another set of trade offs for a buyer to consider in terms of EV range and lost space.

In my, admittedly non-average, case, I would like to go electric. A PHEV would mean sticking with just one car, which means lower ownership costs(insurance, registration), but will require compromises elsewhere. I want to have most, if not all of my commute on electric, and the ability to tow 2000 pounds. AWD/4WD would be nice for accessing beaches here, but that also means high enough ground clearance for loose sand.

My commute is over 60 miles round trip, and I regularly make trips of 600 miles. The Rav4P and Aviator PHEV are the only PHEVs I know of that can meet my wants, but would still be using gas on my commute. Going BEV plus some other car means not only all commute miles are electric, but will much likely be more efficient for the bulk of my miles.

Those rates could also just be for the electricity. My Pa rates are around that of the map's for kWh, but include transmission fees, taxes, hook up, etc., the total price per kWh is around 16 cents per kWh.

Black and white comparisons are useless to an individual, but shades of gray ones become useless to groups and governments. Having a cost comparison between electric and gas for different car segments in every county of Maine isn't going to help the federal government in formulating policy. It can actually hinder it with data overload.

The tools and data are available for the individual that wants to figure out costs for their specific circumstance. The issue is that most people aren't willing to do that outside of the time of needing a new car, and there are individuals and groups that want to stick with the status quo of burning fossil fuels. Published studies using averages are a way of combating their FUD.

 

I started driving in 1961 and recall paying about 30 cents a gallon when there wasn't a price war. In 2021's money that would be around $2.40.

Today I paid $2.79.9 for 87 octane. 17% higher in constant dollars.

Back in 2011 I started figuring out what the gas savings would be if I stopped using a CRV and bought a Prius v. Everyone back then was saying gas would soon be $4. Spreadsheets are only as good as the assumptions you build into them. My projections of expected savings were wildly optimistic.

I enjoyed the v, enjoy the Rav4 and Avalon hybrids we now drive. But did I save $ by buying any of those cars? Heck no. Saved gas, yes I did which was part of the motivation. If it were just about money I would have been better off if I still drove the CRV.