Featured RAV4 Plug-in Coming In 2020 (Page 4 for deets)

The simplest way to make more powerful version is to give it more power to the rear motors and the whole "front" hybrid system stays the same. That way you don't need the aditional clutch that Prime uses to make more power in EV mode. If you look at today setup of RAV4 AWD vs. FWD the power diference is really small (like 5 HP), even when rear motor can output 40 kW. I think it's obvious that the limiting factor in normal version in Battery power and not the motor power.

So with higher battery power and current electric motors you can utilise what FWD version can do + 40 kW of the rear motors, that gives us a nice round number of 200 kW of system power and 128 kW in EV mode. Again, that is without changing a thing in the drivetrain, just adding a bigger battery.

 

My cat loved to sleep on my grand piano. Always had a mink blanket on it.

 

Definitely a larger battery is needed since my Highlander battery depletes rapidly in EV mode. I vote for rear drive only and nothing but a battery in the front. Maybe a backwards truck.

Maybe a dilithium crystal power pack.
Dilithium (Star Trek) - Wikipedia

 

If there’s a portion of the battery that I can never charge because it isn’t ever parked at home long enough, then I overpaid. Doesn’t matter what flavor of EV.

 

Without home charging PHEV or BEV doesn't make any sense, with home charging at 3kW overnight you will get more than enough time to fill up for more than 70 miles, wich is more than PHEV battery capacitiy.

If you don't have home charging then even 6 kW isn't much different, more or less useless.

 

Danny Thanks for the Announcement.
I just took a new look at the Toyota web page and look what they have for us today 11October2019
New Cars, Trucks, SUVs & Hybrids | Toyota Official Site

Let's hope the long wait for a small SUV with a plug in the rest of the US beside Cali is almost over and Toyota is able to make a big splash in the US market for small / medium sized SUV's
iirc Toyota released a limited number of RAV4 electrics in Cali a few years ago 2016?
I wanted to see what MSRP is for the current RAV4 hybrid 2020 est mpg 41 / 38

• LE ------ $ 28,100
• XLE ----- $ 29,395
• XSE ----- $ 34,050
• Limited - $ 36,630

2020 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid Crossover | Let's redefine what a hybrid can be.
I think if the price points are on the mark and the eMPG rival the Prime numbers
Toyota should have a sales winner with the RAV4 Plugin.

side notes:
anyone watching either the saddleridge fire in Luguna Hills or typhon Hagibis scheduled to make landfall Saturday morning near Tokyo as a CAT 2, Habibis was just downgraded from a CAT5 yesterday to a CAT4 today southeast of Japan.

 

2019 Bolt & Volt have 7.2kW charge speeds .... so yea - that'd be double.
.

 

The Chevys also have liquid heated and cooled battery packs which gives them an edge over the air cooled pack for charging speed.

Still far behind Tesla s pack cooling and heating systems as well as charge speed, from what I've read about them both.

 

You aren’t wrong, but I think it’s better to view these as the differences between BEVs and PHEVs.

I’m still learning this stuff myself, but by now it is easy for me to see that some features found on BEVs aren’t necessarily beneficial when added to a PHEV and vice versa.

 

Can you put let's say young kids into the rear seat?

 

And there's the other "balance" that needs to be achieved - bigger battery, more range but potentially longer charging (or a more expensive charger at home) and more weight and less space. A PHEV is, to a large extent still a HYBRID - and needs to be efficient as a Hybrid.

Some PHEVs I've seen tested had moderate EV range - but if they're taken out of town without charging, they're using over double what a PRIUS or PRIUS v use (Mitsubishi PHEV is the one I'm thinking of, where CarAdvice said in urban mixed driving (part EV) it only used 2.4L/100km, but about 15l/100km when it hadn't been charged. Similarly, another magazine had the VOLVO XC90 using 8l/100 when they tested it without re-charging - which isn't very efficient). Raspy was getting about 70mpg from his PRIUS, but his PlugIn Merc 330E only about 36 MPG if he didn't charge it.

 

That's a shame. I almost bought a 2012 Rav4 with 3rd row, opting for a 2012 Mazda5 instead. Great for kids and their friends.

The Mitsubishi Engelberg concept, which might be the replacement for the 2014-released Outlander PHEV, has a third-row.

Mitsubishi Engelberg SUV concept may preview Outlander PHEV replacement

 

i'd be shocked if it were liquid cooled. going by history, toyota will find a way to intrude on interior space, but offer it at a lower msrp than competition, and have incredible discounts and rebates in area's where they aren't selling well, until the competition collapse from the weight of their own superiority.

 

The cost of installing the sprag-clutch in the Prime is very close to zero. It's a very simple passive device. You probably have one in your lawnmower.

 

Plus the other other balance. Every thing they put in there is going to cost more to buy and maintain.

I have nothing against liquid cooling systems. Makes plenty of sense on a BEV car with an enormous battery. But in a PHEV, where the battery is small and only getting cheaper as time goes past? It’s an opportunity to leave out complexity.

Get the liquid cooling system down to a $200 module that never needs more than $200 worth of replacements or labor over the average life of the car and we’ll talk.

 

The current Rav4 doesn't have a third row.

It comes down to packaging. My understanding is that the Escape PHEV doesn't have AWD because Ford opted to place the battery where the mechanical AWD system would be. An electric AWD is easier to package, but still needs space for the motor and control unit. The AWD Prius loses the spare tire well to the PCU, and that is a very lower power system. So battery and AWD are going to be competing for limited space.

The Outlander PHEV has a 12kWh battery with forced air cooling, full power electric AWD, and loses about 30 cubic feet of passenger and cargo space compared to the ICE model.

The Volt, with 18.4kWh battery, takes 13hrs to charge on Level 1. These pack sizes are entering the territory of making a Level EVSE install a must.

The Outlander was using an Otto cycle engine that would be in a non-hybrid. It recently got an Atkinson cycle one with better efficiency. North America still gets the old engine.

The high end brand PHEVs are power hybrids. They are using the system to improve performance, not efficiency. Compared to a non-hybrid with the same output, they likely are more efficient.

An air cooled battery is fine for PHEVs with EV ranges around 30 miles. It likely is a good trade off for costs. For proper cooling though, the battery case is going to take up more space than a liquid cooled one. That starts becoming an issue with a larger pack that is competing with space for an exhaust system.

A liquid system adds cost, but the battery cells don't need to be as heat tolerant as in an air system, which could mean lower costs there.

Not only does the Escape and Aviator PHEVs use liquid battery cooling, but so does the non-plug Escape and Explorer hybrids. So the system costs are probably down to where you want them.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a bigger battery doesn't mean you need faster charging. The opposite is the case. The bigger the battery the more its capacity smooths out the peaks of how far you drive and in turn only requires the charger to handle the average. Further, with a small battery, you might way to charge multiple times during a day, which does make faster charging a benefit.

I have a friend with a 100D Model S who charges on L1 every other day. That covers his driving and if he happens to drive a longer distance one day or another, well, the next couple of charges will make that up.

 

120V is less efficient than 240 .... but
if it's all you have ... it still works.
Another nice feature of the 100kWh traction pack is - it has to go through fewer charge cycles .... for example compared to a 5kWh pack
.

 

It’s funny because I agree completely with what Lee Jay describes. The natural thought is that since the battery is larger and will take longer to charge, then a faster charger is needed, without giving thought to the fact that carrying a fully charged battery provides no value if you don’t need the full range.

In my situation, the L2 gets maximum value, allowing my wife to drive her 30kw Leaf with a full charge every day, and I can pick up quick charges in my PiP to maximize the puny battery. My wife technically does not need to charge every day, can usually go 2 days without a charge in good weather, but not 3. So we are somewhat in the “sweet spot” of L2 usage.

But back on topic, I am very interested to see how the RAV4 PHEV comes out... I have always liked the utility of a compact SUV and the RAV4 hybrid looks like a great ride, but hated the inefficiency (compared to Prius that is, as I spend a lot of time driving solo for work in traffic and using HOV) and giving up the plug. So looks like there is hope on the near horizon!

 

If it is, I haven't been able to measure the difference. I charge every day at home on L1 and every day at work on L2, and recording the energy usage, the numbers are so close that they are within the margin of error (under 1% different for a full charge, on average).