Rainbow Prius Hybrid Powered by Lithium!

Same. I do all my auto work alone and swapped packs on gen 2 and gen 3 a few times no problems. Does the pack even weigh 100lbs?

 

The pack is around 35-40lbs.

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I'm going with you're asking about the OEM pack. The OEM pack IS less than 100 pounds. If I remember correctly, it's 83ish pounds. If I'm remembering not so correctly, it may be 86. One or the other.

 

You've just reminded me why I love Lithium, (not just the medicine ).

If I ever need to change our battery will have to give this serious consideration. Thank you Jack for working on this.

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

mmm How often do you plan on pulling the pack?????
Once every 10 years? The weight doesn't really matter.

I had a passenger, dog, trunk full of equipment, cooler, and still got 50mpg on the highway.
Driving the same way I've always driven.
I haven't noticed any difference than while it's just me in the car mpg wise.

I suppose if you really stripped the Prius of any/all excess weight, put heluim in the tires with
75psi in the tires you could probably see a few extra mpg....

 

@ASRDogman Forgot about Helium. Yeah you're right I think maybe need to fill the cabin, you know, talk like Donald Duck. But in all seriousness as I get older even the 12V can reach close to the hybrid battery weight in Euro cars those monster H8s. It hurts the back if you're not careful. Avoiding a bad back, well, as the commercial put it, (was it Discover card?), "priceless".

I saw a recent video Jack posted where he had his cat stolen and replaced. (What a horrible nightmare. Although he said he moved to a different city I swear I saw a peacock on the video. I think he's still a neighbor. They are kind of the bird of the city I live in. And if that's his house in the background I wonder what he and his spouse day jobs are. Yikes!)

Hope that he comes and chimes in I guess after he's done. I subscribed to his newsletter and got one recently that the latest cells have been 7000mAh. Bumblebee BeeMax (NiMH) claims 8000mAh but we don't hear about anyone getting one around here....


REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

You can always ask someone to help you remove it and install it.
It's not just the weight, it's akward to handle. You don't want to drop it on the ground, or
in the car and possible damage both.

I'm antique, even the 12v are heavy. I just handle them differently, and a shorter time.
And my brother is a mile away and helps..

I wished there was someone near me that was going to replace theirs, I'd help them, just for the experience.
One of these day I might put something on craigslist and see about getting a small club or something...

 

Over here it's called inviting the mates over for a beer and BBQ ..... while ya here, mind givin' me a hand to get this battery out and the new one in

T1 Terry

 

if there is beer, I will come too. I'll get some vodka.

 

Hi Terry,
Very interesting. Have you any suggestions how to simply hook up such a piggy back battery? Increasing the traction battery capacity thus would be great, as long as no complex electronic connections/devices are required.

 

If anyone figures that out it would sell like hotcakes at a Sunday pot luck. if the price is right.

 

Not sure if I should post how to do it now :lol:
I wrote a long post laying out just how to do this .... then I remembered this is a US forum and I could be held liable for giving the advice and someone not properly following the advice and creating a potential fireball ...... so I cut and pasted it into a word doc while I figure out if I'm putting my head in a noose if I post the advice on here ....

T1 Terry

 

I would like to read it.
I can't comment about possible ramifications for sharing here. My comment above was made in jest, as most of the 'Increased HV capacity" projects I've seen are either or both, way expensive - pretty complex .... and above my safety comfort level and complete understanding.

 

Hi Terry,
I appreciate your concern and caution. The "liability" pond is not a fun place to swim. Of course many of us here would really like to read what you figured out.
To deal with liability issues I think you have to be poor - so that you're not worth suing - or so rich you have bigger lawyers - in which case you probably wouldn't be playing with Prius batteries. The fact that you are in oz not the us probably insulates you somewhat. And also many/most of us here probably don't have the resources to sue you internationally anyway - or we wouldn't be playing with Prius batteries!
It's your call, but whatever you do, bonzo to you mate for figuring out how to do this - piggybacking.
Aloha

 

can you just include some disclaimers or something warning not to do it haha or do at your own risk

 

OK, this is just my idea and I am not recommending this is the ideal method to achieve the end result. Should anyone decide the wish to take on this project, the responsiblity is in your hands that you do this in a safe manner.

Each module equals 2 LFP cells in series. Connect the LFP cells in 3P38S and 3P18S, this so the battery isolation fuse in the NiMh battery pack is still part of the circuit..

The NiMh battery negative and the LFP battery negative are common so both should be connected to the negative contactor located beside the traction battery pack.

Add a jumper cable from the positive on module 1 of the NiMh battery to the LFP second cell group positive with a fuse each end that is rated to the cable size used and a type that can handle the associated voltage if the jumper cable was to short to the body, so say 6 mm sq conductor cable and a 50 amp fuse. This way the first 2 groups of LFP cells will balance with the first module. Repeat this jumper cable set up, with the fuses, to the positive of each module and the positive of the next two cell groups in series until the positive on module 19.
At this point, the cable will need to be 6 B&S (6AWG) cable with a 150 amp mega fuse each end. The same for negative on module 20. This is because the full output from the first 38 LFP cells in series must pass through this cable to the common cable from both battery packs that goes to the isolation fuse and back to the negative at the start of the 18S pack and the last lot of series connected modules in the NiMh battery.

The positive on module 28 and the positive on the 56th cell group in the LFP pack are also common and both should connect to the positive contactor beside the traction battery. This cable should also be 6 B&S (6awg) amd have a 150 amp slow blow type fuse that when ruptured the silicon around the fuse element will extinguish and arc to prevent arc over creating a fire.

Fuse type such as anl and mini anl, midi fuses and mega fuses are only rated to around 32vdc, possibly a short length of fusible link cable could be used at each end where it connects to the module or LFP cell, that way the fusible link will prevent a massive current short circuit and any possible arc over.


The module balancing on the NiMh battery will also balance the LFP battery in each two cells in series, but I'd want to add a balancer system across all 56 cells of the LFP battery as well, just to be sure.

I wonder if anyone will actually try this ..... remember, if you don't have the required skill level to do this safely, look for assistance from someone who does have the knowledge and expertise to help you,

T1 Terry

 

As far as the cost, there is no requirement to use the 3 LFP cells in parallel, or even new cells for that matter, but I would advise not to use LiPo cells because of the explosion/fire risk.
This project would really be time expensive, so if the labour is supplied fairly cheaply, the actual material costs might not be that high.

T1 Terry

 

Hi Terry,
Thanks! Awesome that you posted this. Eventually, if I'm able to diagram this out, and time permitting, I may well try this. I have presently 4 Priuses - 2 in Hawaii which limp along with all sorts of warning lights, and have makeshift grid chargers made from Mean Well LED power supplies, and require that the 12V bat be disconnected each and every time I park, and the 12V bat be charged each and every time I park at home. Another 2 in California. A 2014 which runs mostly ok, with an occasional CEL. And a 2004 with too many issues to pass a CA smog inspection. With this one I haven't much to lose so it's the most likely candidate, and I have 2 spare salvaged traction batteries for it. I also have about 11kwH of 280Ah LFP cells bought for a planned solar system, but these I guess are too big for using on this Prius project, but at least I have a reliable source for smaller suitable LFP cells.

Cheers mate!

 

Thanks for posting, I enjoyed the read and only need more time to visualize how the interconnects are wired between cell pairs. It only took me an hour to figure out the high side, low side split and cell numbering scheme, since that is similar to another manufactures pack design that I've been working with or more specifically maintaining for almost 10 years from date of first DTC and learning slow but sure, as they say.
Concerning nominal of LFP as layed out, is it close to the Nimh packs nominal, a bit high or a bit low?

I've read that others recommend a bit higher than what is normally seen at the high end of the regen cycle, but the car also detects the low end discharged voltage and that also needs to be fairly close to where the OEM pack bottoms out and switches back over to regen, simply put to the best of my understanding.
I was going to add to the question a capacity variable of " if using 3p or straight series" but is not really important, how much of the extra capacity in the LFP pack will the prius be able to utilize or take advantage of? That is only if you know how much the smaller - straight series pack - produces in the car and would like to compare the different configurations.