1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

PV panel orientation?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by mwalsh, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    4,884
    976
    0
    Location:
    earth
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    With all due respect, I think the inverse is more likely to be true. Pv panels have a very long track record, with very few field failures. Personally, with dozens of panels (not a very large sample to be sure) over ~20 years, we have had one failure, and that was spiders in a J bot, causing a short, proper series fuses would have prevented the damaged panel!)

    I'm not bath mouthing Enphase here, but the likely hood of random electronic failure in one or more micro inverter is probably greater than the likely hood of a PV failure.

    As for the future of micro inverters and their place in the market. Time will tell. (Once again, I am not bath mouthing the concept or Enphase) but the market is littered with good products that were commercial failures. Who remembers Laser discs, 8 tracks, even cassettes and now CDs? 10 years in the electronic world is a life time.

    In ten years, perhaps some one will have invented a wireless inverter that connects to the grid via the net!

    Icarus
     
  2. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    4,319
    1,527
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    I'll agree that the track record of solar arrays is good. It was not a comparison of reliability, but a note that good engineering solutions live beyond specific vendors. Your examples of failed technologies are actually media failures, not audio technology failures. Everyone can complain that players for their 8 tracks cannot be found easily, but nobody is complaining that it is impossible to hear music from the 60s. Could Enphase go out of business? Quite possible. Will distributed power inverters go away? Hardly.
     
  3. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    4,884
    976
    0
    Location:
    earth
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    How was I able to use the term "bath mouth" twice in the same post? Interesting,,,

    Time will tell if Enphase remains viable, and or if another micro-inverter player (or several) come into the main.
     
  4. jcgee88

    jcgee88 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    181
    23
    0
    Location:
    Maryland Heights, MO
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    This is more of a theoretical discussion rather than a
    practical one. If a decade from now I need to replace a
    Sharp 235w panel or Enphase M190 micro-inverter,
    chances are, not only are they not available, but I
    wouldn't want them anyways because there will be
    better alternatives then that still plug and play.

    That being said, I would like to add some data to
    some of the statements below, rather than taking
    them just at face value.

    Here are the numbers:

    Device...MTBF
    --------------
    Traditional central or string inverter 10 - 15 years
    Disk drive in a personal computer 57 years
    Enphase Micro-inverter >300 years
    Solar panel/module >600 years
    --​

    [Source: Enphase's white paper provided earlier]

    If these figures are correct, one should expect one Enphase
    micro-inverter to fail during the lifetime of the array (25-30
    years), per 10 panels of a PV array. For string inverters, one
    should expect a couple of failures per inverter in that same
    timeframe.

    Enphase is no longer the only micro-inverter company. My
    contractor informs me of at least one other, whose
    differentiation at this point is that they will offer a 25 year
    warranty (to exceed Enphase's and to match the current
    industry standard warranties for PV modules). I agree that
    warranties are only as good as the companies that back
    them...that goes for the string inverter companies, too.
     
  5. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    4,884
    976
    0
    Location:
    earth
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Good info John, thanks,

    My point however, is if a Sharp 225 fails in 15 years, an exact replacement would most likely be unavailable, but it is also likely that a "pretty close" replacement will likely be available, as panels are largely "generic" with Vmps, Imps being in a relatively small range.

    As for micros, as I say, time will tell. I actually haven't heard of a second company, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. Just today, it was announce that Outback Power Systems has been bought by Alpha Technologies of Bellingham WA, so shake ups in the industry are pretty common. Xantrex was sold to Schnieder last year.

    Who knows who will be around in 15 years. One thing is certain though, conventional grid tie inverter will be around in some form or another.