Public Charging Stations

. . .actually it was just a month or two ago I posted in the EV's thread . . .
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/02/china-joins-better-place-on-the-battery-swapping-bandwagon/
the Chinese ALREADY have begun setting up battery swap stations for EV fleet taxis ... so don't say NONE of the cars available ... just none of the U.S. cars available.

This whole thread seems to have morphed into an EV thread, rather than a PHEV thread. After all, PHEV'S don't HAVE to worry about running out of juice ... they don't HAVE to worry about long charge times effect on commute times ... they don't HAVE to worry about rude ICE & PHEV's squatting in a charger spot that cripples EV'rs from getting home ... they don't HAVE to contemplate whether battery swaps are practical ... or whether they can make up adapters for use at antiquated charger stations incompatable with their J1772 plug ... etc. Don't get me wrong ... it's worth contemplation for EV'rs ... but PHEV'rs needn't really worry about it ... unless they're worrying about it on behalf of EV'rs (VERY unlikely) ... that's the BEAUTY of PHEV's ... you don't have to worry about any of it.

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iphones aren't the only ones with these apps; Android phones have them as well.
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A few post back ... mention is made of ICE owners parking in charging station spots. That would frost me just as much as teens parking in designated spots for the disabled, jumping out and jogging into the store.

 

My personal favorite are the jurisdictions that require a certain percentage of EV spots to be handicapped, how often do you think they'll get used?

 

Coulomb is all over the place now

 

Um . . . . no - they're not all over the place. Wish they were though. Maybe 250 - 350 total across the U.S.A. and the U.S has got over 3 million miles of roads. See their map:
Find Stations - ChargePoint Network

So even if they had 1,000 chargers (about 3x as many as they actually do) all over the U.S. . . . . that would only be one charger, every 3,000 miles. That means that even if your EV had a 200 mile range, that'd leave you 2,800 miles of walking/pushing (average) to get to the next charger. But since there's actually 3x less than 1,000 Coulomb chargers (as I mentioned earlier) ... until we get a bunch more, we're SOL. Yes ... we need a WHOLE bunch more. They're coming ... but slowly.

and btw, those aren't quick chargers . . . be prepared to sit for 6 - 8 hours for charging ... because the network is not made up of quick chargers. And another btw ... many of the coulomb chargers are located in PAY lots ... so even if you pull up to a (temporarily) free charger, the lot will tap you for several more bucks just to park. But wait, it gets better ... some only let you charge for THREE HOURS ... so if you pull in empty, you'll only get to recover about 30% - 40% of your charge.

Here in CA (the biggest home of EV's and autos in general), we only have two quick chargers ... maybe 3 ... and one of 'em isn't working. so don't count on being back on the road in less than 30 minutes because the promised quick charge network is still a ways out ... all this good news is brought to you by an EV advocate / owner. I mention that to give weight when I say don't consider this sour grapes ... it's just reality.

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um, no. The relevant measurement is 3 million square miles of land (lower 48). With 350 stations spread evenly, each one covers an area of 8500 square miles. The distance between any two stations is thus around 104 miles. (Plus a bit for not being able to drive in a straight line, minus a bit for being able to put them where the people are.)

1000 stations would put them 31 miles apart.

 

Not sure why one would find U.S. square miles of land to be relevant or even on topic. You look for chargers along side ROADS ... You drive on ROADS ... not on all square miles of all U.S. land ... you don't drive on mountain tops ... or across farmer John's corn fields ... or through people's back yards, through their condos, etc ... you just drive on our roads - hopefully.

All 3 million miles of 'em
Transportation Chapter

... It'll be quite some time before the U.S. averages one charge station every 100 miles of road. Heck, in the 1,000's of miles we've driven in Montana (for example), we've yet to see/find even ONE public charger ... though there may be one somewhere.

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I think his point is you could have several miles of roads all within a couple blocks of a charger. You don't necessarily need them every so many miles on every road, you just need them a reasonable distance from where you are.

For instance there are over 350 miles of roads in Manhattan, but with one charger in the middle you'd never be more than 8 miles from it. (not that one charger would be in anyway practical for 5 million people to share).

As long as charge times are measured in hours then the issue isn't open public chargers every so many miles but businesses where you'll be for a while providing them, such as hotels or parking garages. I just don't see a business model for stand alone public charging.

 

Well I DO get having chargers at hotels etc. But bunching 'em all together? That depends. Sure, in your example that'd be great. In our county there are FIVE J1772 chargers. They're all bunched next to each other within one block. The next "bunch"? Going south, San Diego ... 90+ miles away. Better not run the heater or AC, or it'll be touch & go as to whether you make it. That's the down side of being early adapters. But it'll get better eventually.

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But you don't have to drive them in order. The roads are actually interconnected.

Let's put it another way, there are 275 cities with populations over 100,000. So, do you have to drive 3000 miles to get to the next closest one? Of course not.

Or, shouldn't you include the 30,000,000 miles of logging roads in that calculation. That would make it 30,000 miles between charging stations (by your calculations). I know you don't drive on them, but shouldn't more roads make it shorter to get somewhere, not longer?

 

Took that train in 2000. Hated it the entire time, but mom & brother didn't want to spend the day in the car. I could have driven it quicker than the train took, and sleeping in a half-recliner wasn't exactly pleasant. But, I do understand where you are coming from, and it is definitely a good idea, IMO, for those that would typically drive.

 

I still think that the battery swap is the most feasible idea, but will require *gasp* regulation to really make it happen. If you think about it, it's really just a fuel station as they currently are, just a little more advanced and will require a "tech" to man them.

If all the batteries are accessible easily, this task could be pretty quick. Some of the issues I see are:

- Battery manufacturers
- Battery connectivity (how are they hooked up)
- Battery chemistry
- Programming of the car for charging and maintaining the battery
- KWH per pack would have to be consistent

Now, I'm sure there could be advances to easily cover all these issues (say, require the batteries all be wired the same in the same size "packs" to make up the larger pack). Or you require that the dimensions and connections all have to be the same, but I can guarantee the car manufacturers would totally balk at that idea.

With the swap stations, you wouldn't need as many chargers throughout the country. You would have to require the stations to post their "price per kwh" and have some requirement in place to test the pack by these folks. This is where I see it getting pretty complicated, unless it's standardized.

Just a couple of my thoughts, for the half cent they are worth

 

Well its not a bad idea but for the US and Canada I just don't see people stopping every 100 miles or so just to go across states/Providences. I don't know how long it would take for each "swap" but just to stop about every 1 1/2 hours just seems too much for most Americans. Well my wife would like it.

By the time those "swap shops" get to that critical mass popularity, something else in the electrification of the US may make them a moot point. And I'm looking at 15 to 20 years down the road where battery technology breakthroughs may have tripled. Because these companies and the US Gov't are being pushed, in just 10 years we've gone from large NiMH batteries to smaller ones to Li batteries going 300 miles. I'm not even going to go into motor enhancements/breakthroughs. Also if its just one company pushing this I can only imagine the talk of monopoly on this issue.

 

Well as many gallons of gas as I've given away in the years I've lived here to those unfortunate to have run out, I suppose I'll have to get ready for the inevitable, " hey mister, mind if I borrow some juice". At least it'll be cheaper and who knows what kind of friendship will spring up.

 

i think swap stations is the only viable long distance solution. it will be more than a decade before we see enough of an advance to see things like 400 mile range cars that are affordable to the masses. but a lease option similar to cell phone service contracts can fly right now. you have a choice to charge at home and use swap stations occasionally or NEVER charge at home and use swap stations daily.

since you do not own the batteries, you dont have to worry about longevity, range degradation, apartment living, or long term replacement costs.

the What Drives Us Podcast broadcast Monday the ...ummm, 17th? or so had Better Place rep to detail how their model will work. its a very compelling chat.

 

So will PHEVs be allowed to park at public charging stations in CA? If I understand correctly today a parking decal is needed, which is issued (by the DMV) only to ZEVs.

Looks like there are plans to change the rules, so that any vehicle that can plug in (i.e. ZEVs as well as PHEVs) would be allowed to use public charging stations. The new plan would eliminate the need for a decal, since the ability to plug in would take the place of the decal:
AB 475 Assembly Bill - Bill Analysis

Does anybody know whether this new plan will be implemented and if so, when?