Project Lithium Soother Test

There's pretty much no shortcut to just finding out what it does.

An extremely well made gadget for doing a dumb thing and a poorly made gadget for doing a smart thing would both have problems.

 

I'm certainly in favor of not assuming. The three possibilities A, B, C in #17 are the three possibilities. The test reported here by Azusa eliminates possibility A. That's useful, but not enough to support all the assumptions made in #22.

TheLastMojojomo has suggested the soother could have contributed. This has, so far, neither been proven nor ruled out.

Critically, TheLastMojojomo has not alleged a failure or sample defect in that battery's soother. That, of course, would be impossible to follow up on with that soother discarded.

On the contrary, TheLastMojojomo suggests a design defect in the soother—that it may have contributed without having failed, but just by doing what it was made to do.

I do not say that's been proven yet. It hasn't. Neither has it been disproven. But to check for a design defect, it isn't necessary to examine one particular soother. Any one can be examined. At least two PriusChat members have already volunteered to do it. There is really not much that stands in the way of learning more here.

 

Looking at "credentials" and previous postings of the people commenting on this thread.......and my brain says hmmmmmmmm......

has anyone reviewed previous comments made by @2k1Toaster irt lithium-x conversions? He had a few insights also......

 

heh.. good sir... it is clear you are not aware of the hardware capabilities and data being returned from low-quality devices.
For instance, using a lower-quality device I've noticed delayed data and sometimes missing data in the transmission while using Bluetooth.
Heck, even when using Hybrid Assistance and the app shows the signal quality, the difference between a good device and a cheap device can easily be determined by this value. Also, if a low-cost device can't provide you with manufacture-defined errors, what makes you think it'll provide accurate data from all of the various systems in the vehicle? Imagine using a proper device and your numbers being completely different when data from the vehicle is read properly. Plus, if you haven't tested another device, how would you know the one you use is fine? For the simple fact that to my knowledge (you see how I put in a disclaimer about what I type? This is what I meant regarding prefacing your words since you don't know 100% facts something is what you say) your device can't show manufacturer-defined error codes, I can't consider that a decent enough dongle to provide accurate data.

I literally had a PCB board made with Bluetooth/WIFI and an SD card slot (for logging data) so I could have the fastest best bluetooth/wifi connection to the OBD2 port. My implementation of a rear electric motor for AWD depends on a fast reliable connection to the OBD2 port.

Below you'll see just a few of the dongles I actively use. The OBD MX+ is plugged into a OBD2 connector that then plugs into the actual OBD2 port, the white board on top is the PCB board I had made which is wired in between the male/female OBD2 connectors. I also have another female Obd2 port on this connector that extends from the middle on about a foot of wire. This way I can use techstream while connected to the obdlink mx and the new PCB board which soon as I get time will attempt to create a VIM to use the board through techstream wirelessly.



that to say again... For the simple fact if your device can't show manufacturer-defined error codes, I can't consider that a decent enough dongle to provide accurate data.

 

What you have posted, if given the maximum possible credit, succeeds in ruling out possibility A from post #17.

That is not enough to establish "it is not the soother" or "thelastmojo is wrong".

 

yeah, something about the tone of the pre edits just livens up the place. you know, like when you spray fabreezze in a room and open the windows for fresh ocean air to come in? yeah, makes the air around all more pleasant to breath!

 

timeout here for a second, this is new news to me that such a sacred forum bylaw exists. If such is the case then I would agree with the thought of a new low by way of sarcastic humor with the crowd around these parts as that doesn't allow for being despicable for slander!

It's never my intention to go low, I mean, my prius is lifted for crying out loud. SMH... yall just itchin to point things at me arent you? I love it! Yall flatter me every day I tell ya!

 

No, there is not a sacred forum bylaw, It's just common sense not to do what you did!
If you were trying to insert some sarcastic humor, you could have said, " I think that Chapman should have written ................................................................... in post #28"

 

You need to stop trying to justify your words, you are just digging yourself in deeper. A better idea would be to take responsibility then retract and apologize.

Nobody needs to point anything anywhere – you're doing a great job of that yourself. It speaks a lot about your character that you think it is sarcasm and humor.

 

Like I told Walt, "If you can't say nothin nice, don't say nothin at all."

 

Heh, you are all welcome to read then interpret someone else's words how you must, you also have the freedom of speech to let the world know how someones words make you feel. It sounds like, someone cant make an honest mistake and will be judged by those who are also not perfect in the slightest way. I've learned that those with the most to say, generally have the most fingers pointed back at them. heh... yah wild and I thank you for the smiles. If you didn't get the joke just say so.
Clearly we live by different rules, I don't have humility, why have a low view of yourself? My confidence will always out weight any humility.
Seperatly, I always take responsibility for my actions and words, heh you wanting to hear an apology is something you have to deal with, that's YOUR expectation.

But I will say this @chapman... if you felt I was slandering you or anything other than a smile at me attempting to lighten the conversation and all of the berating I've seen against Asuza then.. ay man, my bad! Not knowing you are speeding and didn't see the speed limit sign is still speeding. In all of my posts, I've posted with the intention of lifting others up and showing support for a vehicle the majority of the country typically has nothing good to say about them. It sounds like versus giving all a good chuckle, the ditch they think I am in might have gotten a little deeper, but that is only so more water can fill and enhance the hot tub I am building.

 

clearly, that's something you don't live by, I remember reading your words when I first joined thinking, "damn, whoever that is, sounds like a female cleansing product'

 

It doesn't prove this at all actually.

Yes you're correct... I didn't test the Signal Soother. I'm going to elaborate more on why exactly I didnt.

@AzusaPrius... as I've said before... I was a Beta Tester for Jack... and I was so thorough and went so above and beyond for him that he offered to pay me when I told him I quit:







I did alot to prove and verify my failures and the logic for why they were happening at my own accord. For example... the YouTube video below is taken from a 6 hour mail route with the entire route recorded in Dr. Prius overlayed on GoPro footage with audio recording of the engine bay. The chapter markers indicate voltage difference spikes in the Hybrid Battery so which would occur after heavy and prolonged regenerative braking stints due to me being a mailman:

The reason I didn't test the Signal Soother is because I knew foundationally... it was a horrible idea. If the Battery ECU is detecting errors in the pack... the solution cannot be to create a device that prevents the Battery ECU from seeing or delay it's ability to see those error codes. It is a foundationally flawed thought process.

The specific error I recieved was P3019.. which means increased resistance on block #9 when testing V2.5 during the cold:



I received this error specifically on cold start-ups and it caused the Prius to enter limp mode. The Prius Battery ECU was detecting higher resitance in block #9. I then went on to verify that #9 was suffering from increased resistance by verifying how block #9 behaved under Charge and Discharge.

Charging Behavior:



Discharging Behavior:



The increased and decreased voltage under charge and discharge indeed indicated higher resistance... note that this was during Beta Testing of the Booster Blades so the voltages are slightly higher on Blades #1, #8, and #14. #9 is not a Booster Blade. I explained this to Jack:



He didn't understand at the time that the transmitted measurements via the Battery ECU are not accurate until the Hybrid Battery hits 70°F. OBDII IR values are not transmitted as a viewable parameter until the Battery warms up... but they are still accounted for and measured in the background. So in this instance all IR measurements were 19 Milliohms... which is their default value and not their true value.

Even if the error was caused by a voltage difference instead of increased Internal Resistance... It doesn't matter. The solution can't be a Signal Soother... as there is an underlying malfunction in the pack that will only get worse with time that the Signal Soother masks.

It was shortly after the last text you see above I decided to end Beta Testing, specifically because of how bad of an idea I thought the Signal Soother was and I was not going to put it in my vehicle for fear of ending up like @sworzeh.

Nope. The Battery ECU previously detected an error severe enough to trigger P0A80. Installing the Signal Soother then prevented that error from being seen which is what allowed @sworzeh to continue driving without a failure code. Underlying problem continued to get worse and then melted module #10 as a result.

The Signal Soother didn't melt... only module #10 did.

Yes you're absolutely right... the problem was the module... But the Signal Soother prevented the voltage difference likely occuring in that module from accurately being seen. That was the whole point of Signal Soother's Installation... which was to prevent P0A80... and why @sworzeh was sent the device.

If no Signal Soother was installed... P0A80 would have continually been thrown... put the car into limp mode... and protected the Hybrid Battery.

It doesn't matter what the problem with the module was... whether it was a disconnected Circuit Board causing the cells to not balance or some other factor. What caused the module to melt was the Signal Soother preventing P0A80... which was it's entire design purpose. It "soothed signals" to prevent error codes... which were real... and were actually happening... and this caused a catastrophic meltdown on #10 due to the Signal Soother delaying or preventing limp mode induced by P0A80.

@AzusaPrius... I would like you to answer one question and one question only from this wall of text...

If you had OEM NiMh Modules still in your Prius and you recieved P0A80 - Hybrid Battery Failure... Would you accept a mechanic or Hybrid Battery specialist installing a device that "sooths signals" to prevent/mask the P0A80 code without fixing the underlying problem? Because that is exactly what Jack's Signal Soother does...

 

You'll be fine driving with the Signal Soother... as long as something doesn't go wrong with the pack and the Signal Soother doesn't prevent the errors from being seen. Unfortunately the Signal Soother does prevent errors from being seen... either partially or fully.

Good luck driving with a blinded Battery ECU. No melted Modules yet doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Guarantee if you were to do my job you'd be a lot more nervous about the signal altering effects of the Signal Soother:

 

Where Azusa was drawing some conclusions beyond evidence in one direction, this still seems a little beyond evidence in the other direction. It may be, in the end, that the "entire design purpose" of the Soother was to prevent that trouble code, and I can see how TheLastMojojomo would reasonably think so.

All the same, I'd be much more sure about that after an actual examination and detailed description of a Signal Soother.