Professional reviewers keep repeating that the PIP only get 6 miles of Pure EV range!

I drove to SF on 101 today (yesterday to Santa Cruz), and you are correct. For that type of trip (77 mile), a Volt will get outstanding results. If you do more short trips, which is the way my wife and I drive, then the Prius will end up being more efficient. Actually, I am very happy that you and others have seen fit to buy Volts. I regret that GM could not have come up with the brilliant technology in the Prius (going back to the first Prius). I think that if you try driving to Lake Tahoe (very long upgrade), you may wish you had the Prius (please report if you try that kind of drive). Each of these vehicles has its place (including the Leaf, Tesla, etc). It is all good. One big difference between Volt and PIP: cost. You pay a lot for all of that battery capacity.

 

It's just a half-a$#ed attempt at cutting down on the Prius Plug-in because they know the PiP will soon be the top selling of anything that plugs-in in the US.

 

Actually, GM did come up with the essential design of the Prius transmission but chose to focus on commercializing hybrid technology for trucks and busses rather than mass-market small cars. See:
http://priuschat.com/forums/chevrol...eally-want-phase-out-volt-17.html#post1460529

I've driven up long upgrades through the "grapevine" between the CA Central Valley and LA. I also did a trip up along Mount Shasta, through the Cascades, and along the Trans-Canada highway to Banff. Not a problem. Got 42 mpg burning gas in hybrid mode. Not Prius territory but pretty good. With the U.S. federal tax credits, the Volt MSRP is only about $2,500 more than the PiP MSRP.

 

The PiP can certainly do nearly 15 miles in EV mode just like the Volt can do 53 miles on a single battery charge (I did that a week ago) but that's not typical of what most people will get when averaged out over time. Only 5% of PiP owners are reporting greater than 14.5 miles of range according to the poll results at http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-...t-your-full-ev-range-startup-without-fan.html

I do agree that the EPA window sticker item about "6 miles" is pretty useless to a typical consumer and is misleading.

 

That survey appears to be heading to about 12.5 miles median. If a full charge from the wall is 3 kwh (is it ?), then median consumption is 240 wh/mile. That is head and shoulders better than the comparable Volt statistic.

I'm also reading anecdotes from people reporting CS MPG better than the HV Prius. I'm skeptical, but there is certainly no hint in the air of worse than HV Prius fuel economy.

Using electric or petrol, the PiP is the most fuel efficient compact or larger car on the planet. By a long shot.

 

Everything has a tradeoff - no free lunch.
If you look at the max system power you see it is far less than the sum of its components which means the MG2 is not the limiting factor for power/torque, in fact, it is far oversized both for CD and HV modes and changing ratio (up to a limit) will not hurt HV efficiency.
In fact, I suspect the (secondary) gearing ratio between MG2 and the ring gear in the PHV is already different from the ratio in the Gen3, to give 62 MPH with 0 ICE RPM (as compared to 45 MPH) and the result is slightly improved efficiency in HV mode.

 

I live in a hilly city too (Nashville, TN), and have had to learn to be really soft on the accelerator to keep the ICE from coming on. Someone just suggested I turn on POWER mode, so I'll try that when I go out later, but I've had to learn to be really soft with the pedal to prevent ICE.

Having said that though, I get 11-12 miles on a charge all the time.

I've thought about how nice it would be to have a pure-electric vehicle, but the thought of getting down to 0 power and not being near a charging station--or not wanting to sit for an hour waiting on a charge--is enough to affirm my purchase. Loving my new Prius as much as I did my last one.

 

In all the charges that I've done (I usually charge twice a day during the week), I've yet to see more than about 12.4 miles per charge, and usually it's in the 11-mile range.

My display always indicates that charging was completed, which tells me that the batteries are at capacity. Maybe you guys are luckier than me, but I have yet to see anything approaching 13 miles, much less 15.

Bob

 

The point had been made that the reason for 62 switching to ICE was to maximize efficiency. I said it may have been to keep MG2 in operating range, and then someone said they could change the gearing.

I did not say changing he MG2 gearing to allow faster EV speed would hurt HV efficency, I said it would have to reduce the power. Reducing low-end torque would reduce low-speed acceleration in pure EV and the ability of MG2 to help the ICE at lower-speeds. There are many tradeoffs.

My point was that the speed limit may not be about efficiency but about keeping the parts in their designed ratios.

 

The end product is a midsized family car that is:

The most efficient PHEV in the market today.
The cleanest and greenest PHEV in the market today

The above was achieved with focusing on long term reliability and cost effectiveness of the product. The trade-off is a limited EV range that Toyota found adequate. It is not a car for everyone.

So, maybe Toyota didn't aim for max efficiency as you are trying to suggest, it just happened by chance lol.

 

Its not even close to the max efficiency.. they could limit acceleration and power more and make it more efficient. Make the car so hypermiling is all it does.. Of course they made choices away from efficiency, just to make it more usable to more people.

Maybe in some places for some users, its the most efficient and cleanest and greenest. It it for those that choose to use more gas than electricity. For those using renewable energy, its none of the above.

 

Can I understand from the above that letting the electric motor do all the acceleration and the full power is less efficient?

By your signature it's clear that the Volt is the ride for you, great stats. What is your EV/HV ratio for the period? I bet it is well above 90% EV.
BTW, your signature is missing a "k" (in the 1163 Wh section)... I know, it's a typo...

 

The electric motor is much more efficient (at just about any speed). The power/efficiency of electric at low speed that is part of the Prius Advantage. (The EV allows it to use an Atkinson cycle which is more efficient by much lower power at low speed).

However, even in an electric motor, faster accelerations are less efficient .

My EV ratio for Oct-April was 92%. I'm also pretty efficient in EV with an average of 305Wh/mile over that time period.