Professional EGR Cleaning Resources

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Mendel Leisk, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    Your doing great...... but expect the Head Gasket problem no matter what you do...
    Get a new water pump at no later than 150,000 easy change out....
    Also expect Inverter Failure and Brake Pump and Accumulator failure. Brake pump will start running alot.... when failure begins.
    Inveter goes out without warning.
    I know about all of this because it all happend to my 2013 and when inverter failed was 1100 miles from home.
     
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  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The only thing gas can help with is clogged fuel injectors which is not an issue on these engines. Maybe the back of the intake valves in the head but not if the engine burns oil.
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Since I started this thread, and it's not too many pages so far, and it's EGR cleaning related, here's and EGR component removal workflow I typed up, quite a while back. It's still a little rough, may need edits. Doesn't cover intake manifold removal, which should be done too, but that's relatively straightforward:

    EGR Component Removal:

    1. Remove wipers, lower windshield trim, wiper motor/linkage, and underlying metal cowl. See NutzAboutBolts excellent video for details:



    2. Drain 2 quarts(or liters) from radiator drain spigot, into clean container (to be reused). This will drop the coolant level below the EGR system, allow disconnection of the EGR COOLER coolant hoses without spillage.

    3. Remove bottom nut from EGR COOLER bracket. This can be done first (or even days earlier) , and due to the difficulty in accessing/removing it, I'd recommend to leave it off; the cooler is quite secure without it.) If you want, back out the stud at that location too, and leave it off permanently as well. (If the doing the latter, it will not be necessary to remove the 2 studs at egr cooler to exhaust manifold connection, and the studs will help retain the gasket.)

    4. Remove engine air intake snorkel and air filter box.

    5. Remove EGR PIPE. There are 2 bolts at each end, and an additional bolt holding a plastic cover piece at the intake manifold end that needs to be removed first.

    6. Disconnect electrical connector from EGR VALVE.

    7. Disconnect coolant hoses from EGR COOLER.

    8. Remove front/top nut from EGR VALVE, and associated stud.

    9. Remove (2) nuts from rear flange connection of EGR COOLER, and associated studs. Be careful to catch the gasket between EGR COOLER and exhaust manifold: it will be loose once the studs are removed. Note: if the stud removal described in step 3 has been done, removal of the rear studs is not necessary.

    10. Remove top/centre retaining bolt from EGR COOLER. The EGR VALVE/COOLER assembly should now be loose, able to be lifted out. Be careful not to tip it too much in this process; there's a few oz's of trapped coolant in the lower back corner. Pour this into the previously drained coolant.

    11. Install is reverse of removal. Pour the drained coolant into the reservoir, with the coolant air bleed valve open, till coolant starts coming out (for model year 2010/2011). For later years the bleed valve has been deleted, but leaving a topmost coolant hose disconnected would likely serve the same purpose.

    Note: not absolutely necessary, but be prepared to raise the front and remove the engine bay undercover. It "may" help with removal of EGR COOLER rear studs/nuts, or may become necessary to recover something dropped.

    Note: if stud at EGR COOLER lower bracket has been removed, and studs at EGR COOLER to exhaust manifold have been left in place, it will be necessary to remove the holddown bolt of the metal tubing (gas tank vapour plumbing) that passes over the EGR components, and lift it up for clearance when extracting the EGR Cooler/Valve assembly.
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Since this is becoming my head gasket repair dumping-ground:

    For those considering a boroscope inspection, it's recommended (by the Car Care Nut for one) to pressurize the cooling system, to accelearate the head gasket's propensity to leak coolant. I've been cobbling a bit with my manual pressure/vacuum pump contraption, and tried, successfully I think, to the pressurizing.

    You could do this with most anything that pumps air, say a bicycle pump for example. I used a largish fluid trransfer pump, plus a couple of check valves, and a pressure/vacuum gauge I've had since way back:

    One thing I learned: you can't just tap into that little spigot on the neck of the reservoir; it has a slot running the length of it's underside, purposely, to vent air. There's also little ears on it, so you couldn't push tubing fully on, seal the slot. Anyway, I used a #4 stopper in the main opening (ID roughly 21 mm):

    IMG_6005.jpeg IMG_6006.jpeg IMG_6007.jpeg
    (I could have pressurized more, but my ancient vac/press gauge kept blowing off. Something to hold it more securely could be used, say spring clamps on all connections)


    What I used:

    1/4" ID surgical tubing

    #4 stopper (you can get them pre-drilled; I just drilled a 1/4" hole in mine)

    1/4" plastic barb splicer, pushed into above (I mod'd a T-junction, since that's what I had)

    Two one-way check valves, amazon description:
    Aluminum Alloy Check Valve Mechanical Industry Car One-Way Anti-Backflow Inline Filter (6mm 1/4" Aluminum Alloy)

    1/4" plastic, barbed T-Junction:, amazon description:
    Eldon James T0-4NN Natural Nylon Equal Barb Tee, 1/4" Hose Barb (Pack of 10)

    Fluid Transfer Pump, amazon description:
    ABN Automotive Fluid Transfer Hand Pump Syringe Bottle - Transmission, Brake, Steering, Differential Extractor Dispenser
     
  5. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    This is a good test to visually confirm where all that coolant has been going.

    But if you see a 'drip - drip', using a borescope, from the head gasket with 4 - 15 PSI coolant pressure,
    that drip - drip is happening at every hot shutdown of the car. The coolant stays pressurized for a while after the engine is off.
    And then the rattle, stumble on the next start up.....:(

    Oh well, you ran out the clock on the chronic Gen 3 head gasket problem. Time to open that dusty old billfold.:whistle:

    Some hope that you can delay this by keeping the EGR system clean, by doing a big cleaning every 50k mi or so.

    Another hope is: just disable the EGR so there is no chance of UNEVEN EGR FLOW. ( the suspected culprit )
    Also get the latest SW update that has something to do with the water pump speed at high power.
    The European TSB even mentions that the SW update may have benefits in regards to Head Gasket life.

    I've done both of the latter and I honestly can't see a difference in MPG. And I have more HOPE now.:whistle:
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    I wonder:
     
  7. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Of course the coolant system is a sealed system with the cap providing a ~15 psi relief.
    That relief is the over flow port you are talking about.
    That port comes above the pressure seal. If you open the cap with pressure on it, while the engine is hot, the steam will exit that port and not get you.

    Do this test.
    Arrive home with a fully warmed up engine.
    Go inside. Kiss the wife. Take a pit stop. Walk back out to the car and open the coolant reservoir. You should hear the pressure release.

    When the engine is running the combustion pressure enters the coolant through the failing head gasket.
    There's a test for reading what's in the coolant in regards to head gasket failures.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Yeah think you’re right. Makes sense. Just means you can’t use that spigot to pressurize system.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Still, the engineers designed the engine to run lean, implemented the EGR system at least in part to keep temps down, and running without a functional EGR system means it'll be hotter than their expectations. Uniformly so, FWIW.
     
  10. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    "Hotter"? As in combustion temps? 'Uniformly'? For the exact same HP output?
    As in cruising down the level road at 60mph the engine may be making ~21 hp. With or without EGR, true?
    How much hotter would the combustion temps be in this scenario? Who knows? You and I don't.....
    What happens at Full Throttle? Is EGR used when that is asked for?

    I know my ECM is reporting 'EGR Control Circuit ...'. My check engine light is on.
    I'm hoping the ECM adjusts things accordingly because of not having EGR flow (or uneven flow) at certain times and power usages.
    And as always, there is a Knock Sensor in the system to keep things out of the detonation zones.
    I can't detect any noticeable change in MPG.

    ( I do feel a smoother throttle response.
    Less hesitation/not really a stumble - but no immediate response to adding throttle. It feels more immediate now adding throttle.
    I think I might be able to tell in a blind test with and without the ERG connected.
    That would eliminate any Placebo on my part, correct? I just need a helper to fiddle under the hood and not tell me if it's connected or not.)

    Only time and miles will tell if cleaning the EGR routinely gives you another 100k miles before the head gasket fails.
    And the same for Deleting the EGR system.

    I'm not on my own with this theory. O'l what'shisface inspired me to Pull the Plug on the EGR system. And there are others.
    Only time will tell...(y)
     
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  11. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Yes the intake manifold has those small ports for the EGR to flow through. They clog unevenly due to longer path for the hot EGR gasses, so the farthest gets the coldest and the most carbony crud to condense out in those tine ports.
    Yes, a new PCV valve is cheap insurance while you have the intake manifold off.

    Those other items are good practice buy not related to the chronic head gasket failures.
     
  12. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    I would guess the lack of flow through the EGR and through the porch and to the engine raises the internal combustion temperature a bit I guess that may be helps the head gasket fail creates a hotspot something this could happen in any engine.
     
  13. Tbkilb01

    Tbkilb01 Active Member

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    great idea... i plugged both ends and pourd bottle techron in it... came out excellent....