Product is there, but no ones looking.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Feb 13 2007, 09:34 AM) [snapback]389462[/snapback]</div>

Sorry to be alarmist when I brought that up to everybody (including the moderators).

While not as bad as it seemed, it's still troll-bait.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(porkfriedrice @ Feb 11 2007, 11:12 PM) [snapback]388745[/snapback]</div>

uuuh, what makes you think I'm biased?

I, my immediate and extended families, and many, many friends have been "taken for a ride" for decades by the Big 3... including family memebrs who have been in domestic auto manufacturing, and are currently in sales and repair businesses. I can appreciate your opinion that my assertions are based on subjective bias. In reality, I speak from decades of personal, objective experiences.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(porkfriedrice @ Feb 12 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]389336[/snapback]</div>

One other point about the importance of fuel economy: you mention the trade imbalance, but I don't think people realize that our single largest contributing item is petroleum imports.

But a good article comparing GM, Toyota and Honda (the top 3 best-selling cars) shows GM is definitely in the running:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/12/backseat-...artner=yahootix

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Feb 13 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]389606[/snapback]</div>

What about the huge trade imbalance with Japan and China? How much of that is petroleum?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ewhanley @ Feb 12 2007, 10:41 PM) [snapback]389331[/snapback]</div>

Hang in there, this is the homestretch, but soon enough it will be a distant memory!
With your degree, I'm sure you will be able to find work for the foreseeable future. But it might mean leaving the beautiful state of Montana! I know there's oil wells there, with the reciprocal weights, but I'm guessing you'd be more needed in emerging markets?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]389607[/snapback]</div>

There's an interesting article at http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/655/1/75/
Basically, of the $666 billion dollar trade deficit for 2004, petroleum accounts for $164 billion, China $162 billion and Japan $75 billion. Japan imports most resources, including oil. China used to export oil, but now imports, so I don't think either one contributes to our petroleum deficit.

I was looking at it as a product-based comparison, not country-based, but you can see it's still close. Manufacturing does trump petroleum (by a considerable margin, although the numbers don't add up, I need to look at it closer), but manufacturing includes a whole lot of different categories (clothes, cars, electronics, etc.)

I make no claim for the website hosting the article, it was the first one in Google that had the numbers needed. We can double-check this with other sites (more recent years would be interesting since the price of oil has skyrocketed since 2004) but the rough numbers will be similar.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Feb 13 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]389619[/snapback]</div>

US Trade Deficit with Japan since 1985 - $1,360,000,000,000

yes that is trillion.

Remember this number is not adjusted for inflation. Does this bother anyone? Do you think this is just coincidence or maybe part of a grand plan? I know the Japanese are well-known for just winging it! Think about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 04:05 PM) [snapback]389659[/snapback]</div>

Better elect more Democrats http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNew...329936820070213

Democrats urge action vs "Big 3" trade partners
We ask you again to join us and develop a meaningful action plan that addresses the burgeoning deficit," House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other senior Democrats said in a letter to President George W. Bush.

The call followed a Commerce Department report showing the U.S. trade deficit widened 6.5 percent in 2006 to a record $764 billion. That included bilateral gaps of $233 billion with China, $117 billion with the EU and $88 billion with Japan.

 

I've thought about it a bit.

US relations with Japan are better than most of the OPEC nations we buy oil from. The chances of a trade war with Japan are virtually zero, but the odds of at least one nation cutting oil long enough to hurt are economy is significant. At least some money Toyota and Honda makes is invested in American plants - not so with importing OPEC oil. Yes, some people in the petroleum industry make a good money in Saudi Arabia - isolated from their society and at risk of being held hostage.

I'm not feeling guilty about sending my money to Honda because Detroit has not bothered to make a 40mpg+ vehicle in America - they have had three decades to do it and it just was not a priority for them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 13 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]389675[/snapback]</div>

The $88 billion trade deficit with Japan for 2006 was on gross trade of about $206 billion. We have to import oil at this point in time. We don't have to let the Japanese dump Honda's and toyota's here and not let us sell chevy's in Japan. How can anyone claim a deficit running at almost 50% is fair trading or trading at all? The numbers are worse for China and Korea.

 

Looks like many of us have been getting a very deaf ear from the GM apologists: "OK, then give us a 40mpg+ Made-in-the-USA car that is reliable to 200,000 miles". The Japanese have been doing this for about 35 years.

A co-worker of mine waw bent on getitng in trouble. Myself and others pleaded in private to avoid the self-destructive behavior. He refused and had to leave.

You can't help someone that refuses to help themselves. While it may change, so far GM has not been helping themselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 13 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]389696[/snapback]</div>

I agree for most of the Prius Chatters who own a Prius. Exactly how much of that yearly deficit is due to 40+ mpg vehicles and how much is due to Toyota importing gas-guzzling SUV's, pickups and Lexus?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]389699[/snapback]</div>

Almost half the gas guzzlers gets build in NA (actually the US). How many Chevy gas guzzlkers gets build in the US?

http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/V...YT2007020146041

Where is your references to all the "facts" you so easily put out?

ANd BTW Chevy sells in Japan, actually quite a few GM brands sell there. Maybe check your facts before spewing off uninformed. The problem is the large vehicles they build don't get a lot of attraction in Japan, the small ones can't compete. So it is limited to the exotic type cars.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Feb 13 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]389744[/snapback]</div>

Check your facts, I suggest you know what you are talking about first. Tell me exactly which Toyota gas-guzzlers are built in North America? Any Lexuses? Nope almost 100% imported. How about the land cruiser(100% imported), Highlander(100%imported), FJCruiser(100% imported), RAV4 (100% imopted)4Runner(100% imported). So tell me which Toyota trucks are built in North America? Lets see in January of 2007 Toyota sold about 22,118 Lexuses of which 3,789 were not imported and sold 67,050 trucks of which 32,291 were not imported. So Toyota corp sold 89,168 gas-guzzlers of which 36,080 were not imported. Hardly 50%.

As for selling Chevy's in Japan, the same share of imported cars are sold in Japan(european and American) as Mazda and Mitsubushi sell combined in the US market.

Please next time have some idea of what you are talking about and less about what you feel must be true!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]389759[/snapback]</div>

Toyota as Toyota brand is what I'm referring too.

Toyota brand sold 67k LT trucks in January of which 32K was build in NA, not quite 50% but close. All Toyota NA build trucks are build in the US AFAIK. Add lexus into the picture (as in LT truck, which includes SUVs) the picture is 75.5k total sales of which 36k is NA build. Close enough to 50%.

Suddenly you want to include all Lexus vehciles as gas guzzlers, yet the best selling Lexus car (and another model) gets the magic 30MPG highway. Compared the GM lux division (Caddy) where none gets 30MPG highway. Funny how you loose everytime when apples to apples are compared drilled down to a detail level.

Your statement was "and not let us sell Chevy's in Japan", which is untrue.

So how many Chevy trucks are made in the US of the total? 100%, 90%, 80%,....???

So again go check your facts and stop trying to play word games. You are the one trying manipulate the truth and not listing your facts.

And lastly get GM to solve their issues instead of trying to convince consumers of it. Products talk BS walks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 02:55 PM) [snapback]389699[/snapback]</div>

That chart you posted 4-6 weeks ago shows the Detroit 3 (or 2.5) sell no more than 38% non-luxury cars while Toyota is still at 50% (while I expect that will decline). I'm no fan of the latest Toyota pickup - it reminds me of the Dodge Ram. Anyway, when it comes to non-luxury cars, GM's lineup does not exacly match well with Corolla, Yaris, and Prius. Depends on what you define as luxury, but Camery can probably be included too.

I would not pronounce Toyota a green saint, but looking at them as a whole on environmental issues, they are still well ahead of GM so far.

This GM vs Toyota discussion reminds me of the trash talk before a ball game. What GM needs to do to end this is to start winning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 13 2007, 12:30 PM) [snapback]389680[/snapback]</div>

Boo hoo, boo hoo hoo. Those big powerful Japanese are using their enormous might to force us to buy more from them than they buy from us, and we poor defenseless Americans are being trampled by their ruthless power. Sob, sob...

Gimme a break. They build products Americans demand, and we build products the Japanese don't want. Then, on top of that, we have a negative savings rate, while they are frugal and save up. If we really wanted to correct our balance of trade, all we'd have to do is spend less and invest (save) more. Both on a personal and a governmental level. But of course that would require the Republicans to go back to the fiscal responsibility they always preached until they came to power.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 13 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]389441[/snapback]</div>

This is an invasion of privacy. It's also a violation of netiquette.

Good thing I'm not a moderator.

This is a forum for people that own and drive a Prius. PorkFriedRice has admitted he does not own or drive a Prius. Nor does he have any plans on purchasing one in the near future if ever. On many levels, PorkFriedRice has no business being here. Regardless of his age. His sole purpose here is to disrupt this forum.

Of course, under those criteria, I don't think Malorn has any business posting here either.

This isn't a public forum. There are no first amendment rights here. It's private. Bottom line is it belongs to Danny and he can do as he pleases. But if he chooses to ban either or both, he has no one to answer to and no need to explain or justify. Because Danny makes the rules.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 13 2007, 07:18 PM) [snapback]389875[/snapback]</div>

Great point daniel!

When Bush I was in Japan (puking on their PM's shoes :lol: ), him and his entorouge (sp?) of auto company execs were oh so suprised to learn that in Japan they use cars with right hand drive! Talk about market research. Perhaps Malorn can tell us if GM has yet RH drive models available, or do they continue to whine that noone in Japan wants to buy suburbans and escalades. An interesting point however, when an American company makes a product in the US that the Japanise want, they buy it en masse, I'm refering to Harley Davidson here, and they are selling in the home of Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Feb 13 2007, 11:57 AM) [snapback]389608[/snapback]</div>

After having taken 20+ credits every semester for the last 3.5 years, I am only taking 14 now. I am pretty much on cruise control, but still eager for it to be over. The job market in petroleum engineering and engineering in general is insane right now. I have turned down numerous jobs, and I got exactly the one that I wanted. There are a few wells here in Montana, but I am headed to Anchorage, AK- like Montana only bigger. Perhaps I am really in a hurry because my SO graduated in December with her masters in geological engineering and has been in Anchorage since then. I am a mere 36 hours from flying up for a few days, though.