Probably getting the Insight....

I did not have money to burn but did have time. Had to call 50+ dealers in 3 states because of our shortage before the WA hybrid sale tax exemption ended 7/31 (8.2%). Also by travelling I found the color/model I wanted and saved a couple of hundred dollars over local dealers so travel costs washed (like many folks, I had a free SWA ticket from work so flew to Spokane, rented a one way car (for $113 due to drop charge) and drove to Lewiston, ID. Had a free hotel night also. Drove back the next day using about 7 gallons. Was the Prius more now, yes, but I think the resale will work out even 5 to 7 years from now. That said, I still like Honda as a company better than Toyota (having had Accords and an Avalon in the past) and have a CRV in the driveway that I lease for my business. The two will overlap for a year and then I will figure out what I want to do. Am disappointed the Honda dealer demanded $589 to let him out next day.

 

I heard that the Insight's ICE never actually shuts off like the Prius. Can someone confirm if this is the case?

 

Inside the Honda IMA Hybrid System | GreenCar.com

Fourth paragraph:

"Unlike the hybrid configurations used by Toyota and Ford, Honda’s hybrids cannot operate solely on battery power as pure electric vehicles under specific driving circumstances."

 

Folks, we have to define what those circumstances are, otherwise all we get is misinformation as usual.

The paragraph is indeed correct as the latest gen IMA system still requires the camshaft on the ICE to spin when the motor/stator is producing motive power. This alone hardly qualifies it as an pure electric vehicle. Also very important, it cannot start and move from a stop without the ICE consuming fuel.

But the article also does not tell the whole story. At speeds above 15 MPH up to 65 MPH, the ICE can "shut off" (no fuel consumed) and even allows electric only operation for respectable distances not unlike what we get with gen 2 or 3 Prius.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

It may be true that the engine never shuts off while driving, but it most definitely turns off under idle conditions. At every stoplight, it shut down. Unfortunately, when it does this, the HVAC also turns off. It was about 85 during my test drive and that didn't thrill me.

 

MSantos, are you saying that when I start my Prius and press the EV mode button before the ICE starts,then I backout of the garage and off to the side of my driveway, in complete silence, that the ICE is really turning RPMs?

I know it's limited speed and distance, but I think I am moving the car from a dead stop, under battery power only. --TK

 

Sorry. We were not referring to the (HSD) Prius at all. The IMA discussion above applies to Honda hybrids only... not the strong hybrids produced by Toyota or Ford.

Sadly, the GreenCar link provided above is seriously outdated and therefore not representative of what the last two IMA gens can actually achieve.

The author is also sadly not well tuned in to many of the relevant platform characteristics let alone its scalability potential (of lack of). All in all, the link is a poor and outdated resource.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

That is just one of many areas where the 2010 Insight remains technical and substantially inferior to the Civic Hybrid II. On this count alone, not having an electrically driven AC compressor is a deal killer for many folks who actually need AC in an urban regimen.

Frankly, given that the 2010 Insight took so many steps back in terms of technology and capabilities it still amazes me to no end that people will think of it as Honda's most capable rival to the Prius.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

I knew the idle stop existed, but for some reason I thought there also was a setting which would allow the A/C (or at least a fan) to run if the ICE were turned off. Perhaps that exists only on the HCH? If the Insight's A/C is not electrically run, then it must rely on a belt that would spin (or not spin) with the crankshaft. Therefore, no ICE, no A/C.

 

Yup, that's the reason why I got the Prius because I can park the car and leave the AC running on battery with my puppy inside while I do quick errands if I have to.

You can't do that with the Honda.

 

My understanding (from talking with the salesman) is the Insight's A/C turns off at stops when you drive in ECO mode, but in regular mode it stays on. When I test-drove the Insight it was 105F outside, so I was NOT happy when the air got warm at stops. The salesman told me to take it off of ECO mode. But with it being so hot, I'm not sure it made a big difference.

One other thing I prefer about the Prius, though it may seem minor to others: I like that it sits higher. I literally fell into the Insight. I have a bad back and hate having to climb out of cars.

 

While others have told you to shop further for a Prius, I'd also suggested shopping further or negotiating harder for the Insight also. My favorite Honda dealer claims Insight's are actually selling for about $6k less than comparable Priuses. I'm sure she's exaggerating to create buyer's remorse because I didn't buy her brand. But some other (now forgotten) sources indicated that with Insights selling poorly, discounts should be significantly better than you were offered. And if you like sedans, the Civic Hybrid is a better hybrid than the Insight, and is also being discounted heavily.

I went with the Prius because we must have a hatchback or wagon, could afford either without financing, and needed the largest one available. The household travel cargo expanded to filled a Subaru wagon for the past decade, and I needed the hybrid to carry as much of that load as possible as a three-season travel car to justify getting a hybrid at all. Prius is bigger than Insight, taking almost everything that fits into the Subaru.

I do miss the Civic Hybrid IMA's superior higway mileage capability (for hypermilers, not for drivers who get only EPA sticker). But Civic isn't available as a hatchback, and that ability was cut from the Insight.