Prius vs TDI

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lupin..the..3rd @ May 29 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]451505[/snapback]</div>

So VW is finally abandoning the noisy, expensive multiple injector design and adopting the common rail, like everybody else has been doing for years here. Toyota has an ultra-clean common rail diesel here, it's available NOW and has been for years. VW has been trying to bash it, saying it has reliability problems. Does this behavior sound familiar?

If you want to see the evidence of VW being not so green, I collected some before in another post.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ May 29 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]451555[/snapback]</div>

Yes, they finally are moving to common-rail, a welcome change that apparently makes the 2008 TDI available for the same tax credits as hybrids:

Source: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=142858

I'm aware of the fantastic euro-diesels from Toyota and others - now if they would only sell them here in the US! I never said VW made the quietest or cleanest small diesel engine in the world - but they do make the ONLY small diesel engine in the US.

On this side of the pond, we really only have two choices for diesel passenger cars - the 1.9 TDI from VW, and the big 3.2 CDI from Mercedes. That's it. Those are the only two passenger car diesel engines available in the US today.

Are there better small diesel engines than the 1.9 TDI from VW? Yes! They just don't sell them here. MSN Auto's offers their Top 10 Greenest Cars list - and most of them are diesels. The Prius is at the top of the list, but note their comment about wishing it was a diesel-hybrid:

http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/top_ten_articl...cumentid=475361

 

I've owned three VW diesel Jettas:

MK2 - 1986 (Germany)
MK3 - 1998 TDI (Mexico)
MK5 - 2005.5 TDI PD (Mexico)

I'll agree that you may end up with some minor electrical problems as a result of QA in Mexico, however most of those problems are directly related to the manufacturing process and when replaced (usually under warranty) you're good for many miles after. The cars are very compfortable and the 2005.5 is a really beautiful car inside and out with the same physical quality you'd expect from VW. They've come a long way with comfort and standard features. Furthermore, they are VERY safe in accidents. I've had major accidents in two of them. In both cases - neither myself nor my passengers received any bodily harm whatsoever (even when going up against a full size pickup truck). My 1998 had 150k on it and the insurance company paid me $9000 to total it.

I guess some of it is what you are used to, but I'm willing to look past VW's shortcomings because these cars are better than anything we have in the US and they are just fun to drive. People are always asking "is that a diesel?" or "it sounds like you need to change your oil!" as I pull away with the turbo screaming and the cool sound of the engine running.

Ahh...nothing better than the smell of diesel smoke in the morning

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ May 16 2007, 02:23 PM) [snapback]443525[/snapback]</div>

Mushi Mushi Ken,

NO it's not available in all 50 states. The more environmentally protective states prohibit new sales, but allow them to be imported once they're used. My car pool buddy just got a used one that came from the state of Oregon. The TDI was much more noisy than the prius. Then there is the ride. VERY rough. I suppose that helps going into turns real fast and hard ... but then again, why would I want to do that? Ego? If there's oil in the turn, my less nimble Prius will likely not go over the cliff, because I won't be going into a curve too fast.

 

I test drove a Passat while looking for a new car. Stopped at a gas station to fill up. Went to drive off and the car would not start. Totally dead. Some sort of electrical problem. I walked home and never went back. Just kind of confirmed the "VW's have electrical problems" is not a myth.

 

Actually they still sell 2006 Jetta TDIs.

When we looked at a TDI, the rear armrest came apart when I folded it down--VW does not get very good Consumer Report ratings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Per @ Jun 15 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]462130[/snapback]</div>

We know they can't sell in CARB states.

Ken@Japan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lupin..the..3rd @ May 29 2007, 12:16 PM) [snapback]451505[/snapback]</div>

Another TDI owner here and I agree with pretty much everything you said except for a couple of details.

Oil: Diesel specific oil is available in the US in retail stores, I found Shell Rotella T Full Synthetic at the local Wal-Mart of all places. None of the auto-part stores carried the right oil though and my dealer did not use the correct oil either. They use Castro Syntec. Needless to say the dealer did not touch my car except for the timing belt and then I changed the oil when I got home.

Emissions: The new 2008's will be Tier 2 Bin 5, that is the worst possible category for U.S. emissions so they won't be cleaner than many gasoline cars except for CO2.

BTW, the TDI's sold in 2007 are 2006's that VW build a stockpile of to get around the new emissions requirements for 2007. The others are correct that TDI's have not been for sale is CARB states for several years, but they should be back in fall 2007 as 2008 models with the new common-rail diesels from VW, M-B, and maybe BMW.

Yes, my 2003 TDI emits much more NOx and particulates than a Prius but I won't be getting rid of it any time soon because that would pollute even more from manufacturing another vehicle. I will drive it another 150K miles or so and then replace it with what is best at the time.

 

Another TDI owner here so have to put in my couple of cents too!

One thing I haven't seen a lot of discussion here is the cost to maintain the new Jetta TDI..I have an 05.5 which is the intro model of the MKV TDI..When we bought it we were hot for a Prius but there was not one to be had for a year..So next choice was VW..First was a 2004 Passat TDI which had a terrible hesitation so we traded it for a much higher appointed TDI Jetta the next year..
The cost to maintain the car was very eye opening. We have the work done at the dealer for two reasons, one to make sure there is no hitch on the warranty and second, I just don't have time to do it..The oil changes are expensive but given they only have to be done every 10K so that isn't bad. What was a real kick in the pants was the 40K service. On top of the service, if you have the nifty new DSG transmission on board it requires service every 40K and is over 300.00 so your 40K can easily be over 700.00..(and this doesn't change the timing belt)
Okay we swallowed that until this last 4th of July we were on vacation to New Mexico and the car broke down in Santa Fe. Car is still there, they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it then they couldn't get a damn egr valve for it..Finally came in and we pick the car up this weekend..It is destined for trade in as soon as we get it home..VW has been horrible through this whole ordeal and we have discovered through the TDI forum there are several others with the exact same problem that cannot be fixed. One guy his car has been in the shop since MAY!
Granted, it's a really nice car..Very well appointed and the 05.5 has more bells than any other MKV TDI..Sporty, comfortable and such..And compared to the Passat the build quality was better..Sorry..I know the die hard Passat drivers won't agree..Maybe it was just mine..

I had only wished I had discovered forums like this before buying the VW..I would have figured out a way to wait for the Prius..I think the VW TDI would be great for someone who wants to tinker and do the services on their own but for those of us who don't, be prepared to pay for it..

John