Prius vs. HUMMER: Exploding the Myth

As a gesture of friendship and detente, I think we should invite them over to FHOP for a lively discussion. Or might be fun if we just go trolling en masse over there.

 

OK, I went over to the other camp at the Hummer board, after I got out of the "Hummer vs Prius" thread, this was the first posting I came upon. No education, probably drunk, bragging how his hummer almost killed a mother and child but his Hummer wasn't hurt badly. Are these really humans over there???? Don't think I'll go back.

"so I was in an accident yesterday afternoon I guess a lady with her toddler in the car seat in her oldsmobile alero thought she would be brave and cross the highway right in front of a big black hummer and her car was tore up her axel was twisted her car was crunched like a piece of paper her glass was knocked out and her airbags were deployed and I broadsided her which spun her around and she ended up in the parking lot I just turned on the highway and wasnt up to 45 mph in the 45 mph zone i barely hit 40 when this occurred i pulled over and got out and pulled her and her son out of the smoking car through the back seat window. But my damage isnt that bad on the hummer the police were like man these things are so tough they were like man if it were any other vehicle that hood would of crumpled my radiator and major components are fine. But the police and tow truck driver were like this is a damn good vehicle and they called it a tank the whole time"
Hummer accident obviously the hummer won

 

Good lord! The amount of ignorance on hummerforums.com about our dependence on foreign oil (the US consumes 20 million barrels/day and imports 60% of it) is just astounding.

Although the guy who started the thread Unamerican hummer drivers can arguably be seen as a troll over there, the "rebuttals" there are just astounding. Those guys (not surprisingly) just really don't get it.

 

I appreciate your attempt to educate and dispel myth and misinformation, but some people can't be saved from themselves. The Hummer people appear to be in that group.

Hummerforum.com = :lalala:

 

Oh, you mean like the hillbilly crowd at the Dodge Ram Cummins forum, a few of which we had trolling here?

Like how that one troll bragged he almost ran over a woman on a bicycle. I guess in Texas that somehow makes you a "real man"

A complete waste of time to explain things to idiots. The reason why the US is in such a mess is because bottom-feeders were given unwarranted access to easy credit and allowed to buy homes, vehicles, toys, etc they didn't have a hope in hell of ever paying off

As far as the guy bragging about how he almost killed a woman and kid in a small car, while his manly tough H2 was barely damaged, let's see what happens if he ignores a train crossing. I guarantee the choo-choo will win

 

... procreate.

 

it would be pretty funny if some train engineers started a forum about how badass they were and how they had the ultimate vehicle. 400+ mpg AND raw power that can't be touched. let's see the Hummer owners deal with that...

 

Let's beat this horse some more

"What is a Toyota Prius good for?" asked a headline in the popular Web site fark.com. "Target practice."

... And then there is the secret dream of Hummer owners: The mini-tank that gets 50 miles to the gallon -- the cross between the Hummer and the Prius.

Hummus, anyone?

It would certainly get their attention in the Middle East.

On the social highway, it's Hummer vs. Prius

 

Re: Let's beat this horse some more

Ooof. Reading the comments posted for that article confirms my belief in the coming downfall of Western Civilization. We are too stupid (as a people) to save ourselves from destruction. I hope the planet recovers when we are gone.

 

best,
~ Sammy, '04 Prius

 

GM has not only been trying to unload the Hummer line (much like it did Oldsmobile), but it seems no one wants it. GM had to pay out about a BILLION dollars to Olds' dealers for dropping the hammer on them. Similarly, GM will have to pay off Hummer dealers, once they give up trying to unload it. Maybe (along with zero interest on other land barges) the tax payer bailout mony will go to pay off Hummer dealers. Wouldn't that be an irony? We the taxpayers get our Hummer, one way or the other.

Mr Spinella, claiming to have solid numbers to crunch will undoubtely have to factor the demise of the Hummer line into his cradle to grave formula. Somehow, I'm certain the demise of Hummer can only calculate out to make Hummer even more green than his usual conclusion.

 

Just to go back to the original source for a bit, Mr Spin updated his report in June 2008 for 2007 and 2008 model years. A review is interesting - note that I'm quoting from the report, so interpret any 'fact' however you like.

The Prius, which as we know is unchanged mechanically, reduces in cost per mile to $2.191, a 33% drop from the original report. The H2 is now listed as costing $3.621 per mile, more than the original calculation for the Prius, although the H3 comes in at $2.327. This is less than a Honda Civic, now at $2.867 per mile. Ford's Focus, for some reason, is now the cheapest at 62.1 cents, excluding the tiny Smart at 58.3 cents. The Smart car is built in France, even for North American vehicles; the North America Focus is built in Wayne, Michigan.

The range of variation between his 06 and 07 report is astounding, from a 24.94% drop in costs (Hyundai Tiburon) to a 42.74% increase (Lincoln Mark LT). Whatever methodology he's using must have some seriously weird factors in it to oscillate that much in just a year.

It could be that he intended the Scion xB to be shown as a 38.79% drop, as it's marked with a pink background as other negative changes were. That makes the swing even more crazy.

 

I think the greenest solution would be to stop Hummer production altogether, so Mr. Spinnella would actually be somewhat correct.

Perhaps it is because he's pulling the numbers from his posterior.

 

This last year, I've picked up a couple of data points that along with the mileage analysis pretty well lays out how CNW Marketing put their nonsense together:

SOURCE OF MANUFACTURING AND DEVELOPMENT COSTS

I am pretty sure this 'data' came from David Cole's "Ann Arbor Center for Automotive Research." In an e-mail to David Cole after an appearance on C-SPAN, he expressed great confidence in CNW Marketing's report. This is what they claim is their expertise:

• Economics & Business Group (EBG)
• Manufacturing, Engineering & Technology (MET)
• Transportation and Information Systems Planning (TISP)

​

MILEAGE DIVIDER

In this area, CNW Marketing invented the mileage numbers as shown by the following graph prepared from their own data:

There were 17 Toyota models in CNW Marketing data including two Highlanders. According to CNW Marketing, the hybrid Highlander would get fewer miles per year than the gas Highlander. The less expensive to operate hybrid would spend more time on the driveways than the more expensive to operate, gas version. But then compare the Echo and Prius, two vehicles with identical engine blocks.

In the CNW Marketing world, the Echo is driven more than Prius. Although the lower graph is hard to read, CNW Marketing deliberately assigned a lower miles per year than any other vehicle. However, an analysis of used Prius reveals they are averaging in the 15,000 miles/year annual mileage. In fact, I would recommend anyone who has a question to use the Ebay used car listing to replicate my analysis. But the extreme other end of the scale is the expected life-time of the Toyota Land Cruiser, an incredible 28 years.

This was how CNW Marketing made the Hummer H1 less bad. He gave it an incredible life-time, about 350,000 miles if I remember correctly. He simply gave these land islands exceptionally large mileage so they would appear to be more efficient per mile. I believe he still claims a Prius lasts only 109,000 miles.

CONCLUSION

I'm pretty sure CNW Marketing is faced with a hard problem: how to deal with the GM two-mode and Volt. Somehow they have to come up with some severely discounted development cost (perhaps 'cost sharing' with Chyrsler and BMW) or for the two-mode, his favorite SUV trick, extremely long service life and mileage. But CNW Marketing is faced with incredibly small numbers of GM two-mode and Volt units.

My expectation is "Dust-to-Dust" will quietly die. We may have seen the last free update and I would expect it to become a pay-for-fee report. Other than some disultary press releases, it is all but useless.

EPITATH FOR "DUST-TO-DUST"

Born in 2006, two months later, its only surviving favorite offspring, the Hummer H1, passed on. It was further beset by annual Prius sales:

• 2004 - 53,991
• 2005 - 109,900
• 2006 - 109,000 (same year as "Dust-to-Dust" release)
• 2007 - 183,800
• 2008 - 82,900 as of April, totally sold out in May

Misquoted by George Will and politically motivated individuals, its use tags the quoter as being either ill informed or a propagandists. Regardless, it died an early death and had no detectable adverse impact on Prius sales nor the ability to save the Hummer.

Bob Wilson

 

Thanks Bob, a fitting tribute at this sad time. Dust-to-Dust will be fondly remembered for it's pure fiction and may be found in libraries alongside Mills and Boon in the romantic fantasy section.

 

@Bob Wilson

In the end, GM's results speak for themselves. They can't blame anybody else but themselves.

 

http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_g/General_Motors/20090603_gm_hummer_sold.html

Bob Wilson

 

H2s have horrible collision energy management. While the laws of physics will always say that bigger>smaller in terms of inertia, GM's trucks and SUVs don't have the same front-end structure such as what Ford and Toyota have been using, hell even HONDA, yes Honda is using on the Pilot(they call it Advanced Compatiblity Engineering) that is similar to a conventional car. Hence the reason why the H2's front end crumples like a soda can if it hits the right object - and the occupants inside get tossed around like a salad.

But what even annoys me even more are lifted trucks - and I usually see valley girls from Walnut Creek or Danville drive those.

 

there's alot of stupid people out there that will believe anything they read
I get told by people i work with about how much impact my car has on the enviroment
but they get there info from misleading shows like TOP GEAR or stuff they read online.
I just tell them that who ever believes what they read or watch on TV is a dumb nice person

 

This one is a laffer. Nobody really believes the Hummer is more energy efficient than the Prius. Even the Pope doesn't believe that. LOL.