Prius to home in a storm

ChapmanF · Feb 24, 2021

Another reason to think about the wire gauge, at least as significant with a low-voltage inverter, is just the amount of voltage drop that will be seen at full load. That's easy to measure, just run a full load off the inverter and measure the battery voltage, and then the voltage across the inverter's input connections.

This may end up being of more practical significance than wire overheating; you'll likely find that the voltage drop becomes a problem well before the wire reaches any temperature of concern.

Most inverters now have a low-battery-voltage automatic shutoff, intended to prevent over-discharging a battery. But of course the inverter will shut off when its input terminal voltage reaches that cutoff point, not the voltage at the battery itself.

The supply-voltage-drop issue is less trouble for the kind of high-input-voltage, traction-battery-supplied inverter that Randy was describing in the original post. Because that kind of inverter will be producing the same output power with less than a tenth of the input current compared to a 12-volt-input inverter, it does not demand nearly the same thickness of supply wiring.

Randy B · Sep 7, 2022

ChapmanF said: ↑

Noice!

For anybody who hasn't seen Randy around, he's the proprietor of PlugOut Power, where you can find the system shown in the photo (in two flavors, a 3 kW and a 5 kW size).

The idea of running an inverter from the high-voltage system of the Prius in order to escape the power limits on the 12 volt system has been around more than a dozen years, and people have cobbled various things together to do it. Richard Factor put together a basic wish list for the kind of system that would fit the bill nicely.

Some of the past approaches have been covered in other threads or sites:

PriUPS-getting electricity FROM your hybrid vehicle

Using a Prius as a generator — northernarizona-windandsun

My install and review of the AIMS Prius 2kW Pure Sine Wave Inverter for Backup Power Generator | PriusChat

My install and review of the ConVerdant LFI30-220 3kVA Pure Sine Wave Inverter for Backup Power | PriusChat

By the way, that last one was sold by an older venture of Randy's, ConVerdant Power. I ended up getting one of those not long ago, passed along by another PriusChatter. (By whatever fluke of circumstance, I ended up with the one with serial number N001!)

Compared to the older one I ended up with, Randy's newer ones have come down in both size and weight. The old 3kVA unit was heavy (33 kg) and really, awkwardly, big (about 30 by 55 by 50 cm, nearly 83 liters of space):

... it was one giant box including a big transformer in the bottom. You can see the system Randy is offering now has the inverter and the transformer in separate boxes, which could give you more flexibility to squeeze them in somewhere, and the inverter box is slimmed down to 10 by 30 by 44 cm, just 13 liters, and only around 12 kg.

The transformer is still the heavy bit, and bulky (maybe 20 liters-ish). So the whole system still comes in around 29 kg for the 3kW version, but that's better than 33 kg for the old one, and totals around 33 liters, way better than 83 for the old one.

I'm experimenting with how small a package I could squash the old one into ... it's looking like I could get it to maybe 39 liters without modifying much, just reducing the empty space in the case. Will have to be careful to maintain cooling capacity ...

Some other ways it looks like Randy has improved this one over the old ConVerdant one:

This one produces 240 VAC natively from the inverter itself; if that's all you need, it looks like you could leave the transformer behind, which is only needed to produce the 240/120 VAC split-phase output.

This one can be attached to a 24 V (or 48 V, for the 5 kW version) dedicated battery bank, and keep that charged for use when the Prius is on errands.

These seem to be rated 3 or 5 actual kilowatts (slightly higher on VA); the old ConVerdant units were 3 or 5 kVA, and not quite as many watts.

Input voltage rating up to 450 VDC. Should allow use as far back as the Gen 1 Prius, which was always hard to do this with because of its higher 274 volt battery, and also various newer vehicles with higher battery voltages.

Naturally, I don't have one of these new ones, but I'll be watching for a review thread from somebody who gets one!

My own wish list would include actual HV cable and connectors used for the connection to the car's HV wiring.

Other threads about these kinds of systems often fill up with comments about whether it is a good or a silly idea, many of them from people who don't realize they're repeating whole past discussions. To help with that, Richard Factor put together a summary of a lot of the Usual Comments.

Edit: oop, messages crossed with Randy's. I'm not connected with Randy or his company, I just kind of like the idea, so I don't mind giving details, keeps Randy from having to be salesy.
Click to expand...

ChapmanF said: ↑

Noice!

For anybody who hasn't seen Randy around, he's the proprietor of PlugOut Power, where you can find the system shown in the photo (in two flavors, a 3 kW and a 5 kW size).

The idea of running an inverter from the high-voltage system of the Prius in order to escape the power limits on the 12 volt system has been around more than a dozen years, and people have cobbled various things together to do it. Richard Factor put together a basic wish list for the kind of system that would fit the bill nicely.

Some of the past approaches have been covered in other threads or sites:

PriUPS-getting electricity FROM your hybrid vehicle

Using a Prius as a generator — northernarizona-windandsun

My install and review of the AIMS Prius 2kW Pure Sine Wave Inverter for Backup Power Generator | PriusChat

My install and review of the ConVerdant LFI30-220 3kVA Pure Sine Wave Inverter for Backup Power | PriusChat

By the way, that last one was sold by an older venture of Randy's, ConVerdant Power. I ended up getting one of those not long ago, passed along by another PriusChatter. (By whatever fluke of circumstance, I ended up with the one with serial number N001!)

Compared to the older one I ended up with, Randy's newer ones have come down in both size and weight. The old 3kVA unit was heavy (33 kg) and really, awkwardly, big (about 30 by 55 by 50 cm, nearly 83 liters of space):

... it was one giant box including a big transformer in the bottom. You can see the system Randy is offering now has the inverter and the transformer in separate boxes, which could give you more flexibility to squeeze them in somewhere, and the inverter box is slimmed down to 10 by 30 by 44 cm, just 13 liters, and only around 12 kg.

The transformer is still the heavy bit, and bulky (maybe 20 liters-ish). So the whole system still comes in around 29 kg for the 3kW version, but that's better than 33 kg for the old one, and totals around 33 liters, way better than 83 for the old one.

I'm experimenting with how small a package I could squash the old one into ... it's looking like I could get it to maybe 39 liters without modifying much, just reducing the empty space in the case. Will have to be careful to maintain cooling capacity ...

Some other ways it looks like Randy has improved this one over the old ConVerdant one:

This one produces 240 VAC natively from the inverter itself; if that's all you need, it looks like you could leave the transformer behind, which is only needed to produce the 240/120 VAC split-phase output.

This one can be attached to a 24 V (or 48 V, for the 5 kW version) dedicated battery bank, and keep that charged for use when the Prius is on errands.

These seem to be rated 3 or 5 actual kilowatts (slightly higher on VA); the old ConVerdant units were 3 or 5 kVA, and not quite as many watts.

Input voltage rating up to 450 VDC. Should allow use as far back as the Gen 1 Prius, which was always hard to do this with because of its higher 274 volt battery, and also various newer vehicles with higher battery voltages.

Naturally, I don't have one of these new ones, but I'll be watching for a review thread from somebody who gets one!

My own wish list would include actual HV cable and connectors used for the connection to the car's HV wiring.

Other threads about these kinds of systems often fill up with comments about whether it is a good or a silly idea, many of them from people who don't realize they're repeating whole past discussions. To help with that, Richard Factor put together a summary of a lot of the Usual Comments.

Edit: oop, messages crossed with Randy's. I'm not connected with Randy or his company, I just kind of like the idea, so I don't mind giving details, keeps Randy from having to be salesy.
Click to expand...

ChapmanF, Thank you for the post of information about the ConVerdant and POP inverters. Please note that the inverters have always come with the needed car-cable and inverter cables included. Your hand off inverter probably had the car cable left installed on the Prius.

Randy B · Sep 7, 2022

fuzzy1 said: ↑

This looks like it has an input rating to 450V, and the Prius Prime is on the approved vehicle list. Does that mean the RAV4 Prime will also get approved?

I believe the AIMS can't go up to the Prime battery voltages.
Click to expand...

The Aims unit is not compatible with anything but the gen2 and 3 prius.
The Prius Prime is a supported car, but the Rav4 Prime is not because the connection points are hidden inside the battery box and this would be impractical to access.
Randy Bryan
PlugOut Power

Randy B · Sep 7, 2022

The Rav4 hybrids are supported.

ChapmanF · Sep 7, 2022

Randy B said: ↑

ChapmanF said: ↑

My own wish list would include actual HV cable and connectors used for the connection to the car's HV wiring.
Click to expand...

Please note that the inverters have always come with the needed car-cable and inverter cables included. Your hand off inverter probably had the car cable left installed on the Prius.
Click to expand...

I had noted that, but what I meant was that my wish list would be for the cables to be built using actual HV cable and connectors.

The ones that generally come with these inverters seem to be made out of extension cord and Anderson connectors.

The car uses shielded HV-specific cable and employs a self-testing technique to detect leakage between the HV conductors and the shields. It also has a low-voltage interlock circuit to detect when connections are open. There is HV cable available that contains both power conductors, shielding, and the low-voltage interlock circuit.

Available HV-specific connectors ensure the integrity of the shielding, and include interlock pins to complete the circuit when connected. A touch-safe dummy connector is available to be used on the car-side pigtail and complete the interlock circuit when the inverter is not present.

So that's what I was saying would be on my wish list.

Randy B · Sep 7, 2022

ChapmanF said: ↑

I had noted that, but what I meant was that my wish list would be for the cables to be built using actual HV cable and connectors.

The ones that generally come with these inverters seem to be made out of extension cord and Anderson connectors.

The car uses shielded HV-specific cable and employs a self-testing technique to detect leakage between the HV conductors and the shields. It also has a low-voltage interlock circuit to detect when connections are open. There is HV cable available that contains both power conductors, shielding, and the low-voltage interlock circuit.

Available HV-specific connectors ensure the integrity of the shielding, and include interlock pins to complete the circuit when connected. A touch-safe dummy connector is available to be used on the car-side pigtail and complete the interlock circuit when the inverter is not present.

So that's what I was saying would be on my wish list.
Click to expand...

ChapmanF,
Duly noted. Thanks.
Our kits include HV cables and connectors rated to 300v for gen2 and 3 prius, and rated to 600v for higher voltage models. The car cable in fused. The car-side connector is suited to the vehicle.
The connector you reference above is similar to connectors the OEMs use. But problematic to serve as an aftermarket product connector. Still, I am open to ideas.
Randy Bryan - POP

Randy B · Sep 7, 2022

ChapmanF<
I was just looking at a thread I had started on using the Prius in a storm for power. But it was closed to replies...
THere were some innocent-incorrect posts there.. no way to help correct. Randy Bryan

Prius to home in a storm

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