Featured Prius, Tesla and other, 23 most dangerous cars

austingreen · Nov 27, 2024 at 2:38 PM

Trollbait said: ↑

It's 2018 to 2022, IIRC. Iseecars uses the miles and age from used car listings that pass through their site. This study is a step up in that it didn't just use a single year.
I'd say mosy drivers won't read the manual.
Click to expand...

Again, what a poor way to guesstimate vet. Model Y wasn't sold until 2020. How many were sold used that were less than 2 years old. That simply is garbage data if is only less than 2 year old used car that make it to iseecars database.

Also you don't need to read the. manual. there are many warnings

Trollbait · Nov 27, 2024 at 4:08 PM

austingreen said: ↑

Again, what a poor way to guesstimate vet. Model Y wasn't sold until 2020. How many were sold used that were less than 2 years old. That simply is garbage data if is only less than 2 year old used car that make it to iseecars database.
Click to expand...

Iseecars studies have always been problematic. The point seems to beabout getting press. Which is why I discounted this news piece when it first showed up in my feed.

Also you don't need to read the. manual. there are many warnings
Click to expand...

Do you get pop up warnings about not using it in the rain or sunglare, mistaking cars in other lanes as being in yours when on curves, that it might follow car making a lane change, etc.? Warnings can be ignored, especially when the driver doesn't know the system's limitations.

hill · Nov 27, 2024 at 4:31 PM

Oh the irony. An auto manufacturer can get sued if he doesn't have the latest safety features, whether it be (from history) collapsible steering linkage or padded dashes, air bags or seat belts etc. We had a friend whose life was saved in a head-on collision by an early airbag which burned the flesh right off of her hand. Voila ... lawsuit. Enter computerized safety features. Include them? Now you get sued because they're not safe enough because they are making you more lazy ignorant?
.

Isaac Zachary · Nov 27, 2024 at 5:24 PM

hill said: ↑

Oh the irony. An auto manufacturer can get sued if he doesn't have the latest safety features, whether it be (from history) collapsible steering linkage or padded dashes, air bags or seat belts etc. We had a friend whose life was saved in a head-on collision by an early airbag which burned the flesh right off of her hand. Voila ... lawsuit. Enter computerized safety features. Include them? Now you get sued because they're not safe enough because they are making you more lazy ignorant?
.
Click to expand...

I sometimes wonder if we could make roads safer either by making all cars fully autonomous or by installing a battery of steak knifes that stick out of the dash and steering wheel pointed at the driver in each and every car. I suppose option A is more likely to be accepted by the general public.

bwilson4web · Nov 30, 2024 at 12:03 AM

For those coming out of their Turkey coma, preliminary results from 2019 FARS data:

Only crashes that had at least one fatality in 2019

Service days

Accurate from the first of year for same model year vehicle

Add 1/2 year of days, 182, for the previous model year

Add 365 days for each full year between model year and 2019

So the Model S has the largest number of service days because it predates the Model 3 by many service years. The Model 3 had no full service years, just the current year and half, 182 days, for the first model year. There was only one fatal Model X accident that was bought the year before.

I will probably report just the service days for accidents in the FARS reporting year. Trying to estimate the total service miles is useful IF you understand how I estimated the service miles. This will make the figure of merit, "days/death", more usable for A to B compallrison. But this gives a free pass for older vehicles whose fatal accidents had more years of service.

So I'll probably do the following:

Make/Model

Days in FARS year

Deaths in FARS year

Days/Death in FARS year

Sum previous model years in days

Lesson's learned: trim out the obviously flawed records and standardize the columns. Then cut and paste the formula. Initially, report just fatalities in the same FARS and model years. Then handle the older vehicles as a separate result.

Bob Wilson

Gokhan · Nov 30, 2024 at 4:41 AM

Let general public drive extremely fast but affordable electric vehicles, and there will be a lot of catastrophic accidents.

Tesla Cybertruck is probably the most dangerous truck on the road. I saw someone driving one like a maniac on the freeway tonight.

This happened a few days ago:

Three wealthy teens are killed when ‘speeding’ Tesla Cybertruck crashes and catches fire | Daily Mail Online

Gokhan · Nov 30, 2024 at 4:45 AM

A student tragically killed a motorcyclist with his Tesla Model 3 at USC last week.

Fast cars and bad drivers is a very bad combination.

One person died Friday morning after a car crashed into a motorcycle at Jefferson and McClintock—Annenberg Media

Isaac Zachary · Nov 30, 2024 at 6:47 AM

Gokhan said: ↑

Let general public drive extremely fast but affordable electric vehicles, and there will be a lot of catastrophic accidents.
Click to expand...

Let the general public drive and there will be accidents. Nearly all cars built these days can get up to extremely fast speeds very quickly. Bigger cars are safer for occupants, but not for pedestrians. Pedestrian deaths-per-miles-driven has about doubled according to the IIHS. The solution is to either force everyone to drive smaller cars, like Fiat 500s, or make things, like braking, more autonomous.

Isaac Zachary · Nov 30, 2024 at 7:13 AM

bwilson4web said: ↑

For those coming out of their Turkey coma, preliminary results from 2019 FARS data:
View attachment 264452

Only crashes that had at least one fatality in 2019

Service days

Accurate from the first of year for same model year vehicle

Add 1/2 year of days, 182, for the previous model year

Add 365 days for each full year between model year and 2019

So the Model S has the largest number of service days because it predates the Model 3 by many service years. The Model 3 had no full service years, just the current year and half, 182 days, for the first model year. There was only one fatal Model X accident that was bought the year before.

I will probably report just the service days for accidents in the FARS reporting year. Trying to estimate the total service miles is useful IF you understand how I estimated the service miles. This will make the figure of merit, "days/death", more usable for A to B compallrison. But this gives a free pass for older vehicles whose fatal accidents had more years of service.

So I'll probably do the following:

Make/Model

Days in FARS year

Deaths in FARS year

Days/Death in FARS year

Sum previous model years in days

Lesson's learned: trim out the obviously flawed records and standardize the columns. Then cut and paste the formula. Initially, report just fatalities in the same FARS and model years. Then handle the older vehicles as a separate result.

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...

What's a day or service day and how does that compare to deaths per million miles?

hill · Nov 30, 2024 at 10:02 AM

Gokhan said: ↑

Tesla Cybertruck is probably the most dangerous truck on the road. I saw someone driving one like a maniac on the freeway tonight.

This happened a few days ago:

Three wealthy teens are killed when ‘speeding’ Tesla Cybertruck crashes and catches fire | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...

Yes .... your message is so clear and obvious. Only stupid people speed. Only stupid people drive electric cars. Ergo all stupid people speed & drive Electric cars.
That logic cracks me up
Thank you for the pearls of wisdom.
.

Trollbait · Nov 30, 2024 at 10:22 AM

Isaac Zachary said: ↑

Let the general public drive and there will be accidents. Nearly all cars built these days can get up to extremely fast speeds very quickly. Bigger cars are safer for occupants, but not for pedestrians. Pedestrian deaths-per-miles-driven has about doubled according to the IIHS. The solution is to either force everyone to drive smaller cars, like Fiat 500s, or make things, like braking, more autonomous.
Click to expand...

It is possible to also design cars to mitigate injuries to pedestrians. Europe has such regulations, and is why the Cybertruk isn't road legal there.

Gokhan · Nov 30, 2024 at 4:13 PM

Trollbait said: ↑

It is possible to also design cars to mitigate injuries to pedestrians. Europe has such regulations, and is why the Cybertruk isn't road legal there.
Click to expand...

Interesting. But then, anything goes in the US.

Google’s AI summary:

No, the Tesla Cybertruck is not legal in Europe as it is currently designed:

Safety: The Cybertruck's design conflicts with European road safety standards, including pedestrian and cyclist protection. For example, the Cybertruck's thin, flat stainless steel sheet metal design makes it difficult to round protruding parts to the required 3.2 mm.

Acceleration: The Cybertruck's ability to accelerate quickly is a concern.

Crumple zones: The adequacy of the Cybertruck's crumple zones is questionable.

Direct vision: The Cybertruck's design may pose a risk to children due to poor direct vision.

Isaac Zachary · Nov 30, 2024 at 5:11 PM

hill said: ↑

Yes .... your message is so clear and obvious. Only stupid people speed. Only stupid people drive electric cars. Ergo all stupid people speed & drive Electric cars.
That logic cracks me up
Thank you for the pearls of wisdom.
.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to post an article based on dubious evidence. But pointing to a single event as evidence of an entire group of something as being horribly bad is just plain prejudice, the making of a stereotype.

Trollbait said: ↑

It is possible to also design cars to mitigate injuries to pedestrians. Europe has such regulations, and is why the Cybertruck isn't road legal there.
Click to expand...

The rental Kia apparently has some sort of automatic braking. I do feel safety is very important and that automatic and other forms of pedestrian crash mitigation is helpful and should be enforced and incentivised. I've known way too many people ran over by cars. On the other hand, I wish I could afford a safer vehicle as such technologies come out.

Maybe it's kind of hypocritical of me to want cars that are safer and better for the environment and then not plan to buy one. I still doubt that going car free at any point would be possible, unless I went blind or moved to some third world country or something similar.

wjtracy · Nov 30, 2024 at 5:20 PM

I don't know what to make of this study...we would need to hear this from a reputable source like CR or something.

Re: the Honda CRV Hybrid, I am thinking that was just becoming available in March 2020 during COVID shutdown. That was when our 2006 Prius died, we had just bought a new 2020 RAV4HV. We did not consider the Honda version due to it being just released. So its hard to see how that CRV data during COVID makes sense.

Trollbait · Nov 30, 2024 at 5:32 PM

Isaac Zachary said: ↑

I didn't mean to post an article based on dubious evidence. But pointing to a single event as evidence of an entire group of something as being horribly bad is just plain prejudice, the making of a stereotype.

The rental Kia apparently has some sort of automatic braking. I do feel safety is very important and that automatic and other forms of pedestrian crash mitigation is helpful and should be enforced and incentivised. I've known way too many people ran over by cars. On the other hand, I wish I could afford a safer vehicle as such technologies come out.

Maybe it's kind of hypocritical of me to want cars that are safer and better for the environment and then not plan to buy one. I still doubt that going car free at any point would be possible, unless I went blind or moved to some third world country or something similar.
Click to expand...

What I was referring to wasn't the auto braking, which helps, but designing the car's exterior to reduce the chance of the person going under the car, and spread out the force applied to the person, when they do get hit.

Isaac Zachary · Nov 30, 2024 at 6:18 PM

Trollbait said: ↑

What I was referring to wasn't the auto braking, which helps, but designing the car's exterior to reduce the chance of the person going under the car, and spread out the force applied to the person, when they do get hit.
Click to expand...

I see.

One of the reasons I saw on a news report as to why pedestrian safety has gone down is the switch to crossovers, and worse yet, SUVs and pickups. Apparently the taller the vehicle the more likely it will hit vital organs as well as push the person down on the ground in front of the oncoming vehicle. A lower hood will tend to damage just legs but maintain the rest of the body up and over the car where fatal damage is far less likely.

For some reason it seems like bean bag bumpers or permanent airbags for bumpers would make sense.

Isaac Zachary · Nov 30, 2024 at 6:19 PM

wjtracy said: ↑

I don't know what to make of this study...we would need to hear this from a reputable source like CR or something.
Click to expand...

I concur! What about the IIHS?

bwilson4web · Nov 30, 2024 at 7:45 PM

Just fatal accidents in 2019 from the NHTSA FARS database, no model miles for all makes and models. These vehicles were bought in 2019 and had at least one fatal accident in that year. There are two Tesla entries but the database does not name the models, just an index. Treat the first as Model 3 and the second as Model S. Space separated columns:

crashes - fatal accidents in the first year

dead - how many died in the first year

days - the number of service days in the first year for all accidents

MAK_MODNAME

Here is the 2019 data:

crashes dead days MAK_MODNAME
74 77 688 Harley-Davidson 750cc or greater
20 21 713 Ford F-Series pickup
19 19 686 Freightliner - CBE
16 18 724 Nissan/Datsun Altima
16 17 638 Chevrolet Equinox
16 17 686 KIA Soul
15 20 703 Toyota Corolla
15 17 681 Nissan/Datsun Sentra
15 15 707 Toyota Camry
14 14 695 Nissan/Datsun Rogue
12 14 696 Ford Fusion
12 12 597 Harley-Davidson 750cc or greater
12 12 682 Volvo - CBE
10 11 609 Kawasaki 450-749cc
10 10 656 Chevrolet pickup/Silverado
08 10 654 Dodge Challenger
08 09 543 Kenworth - CBE
08 09 600 Dodge Ram Pickup
08 09 633 International Harvester/Navistar - CBE
08 09 707 Hyundai Elantra
08 08 567 Volkswagen/Jetta SportsWagen
07 09 657 Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx
07 08 563 Hyundai Accent
07 07 622 Kawasaki 350-449cc
07 07 633 Jeep- Jeep Cherokee
07 07 642 Nissan/Datsun Versa
06 06 562 Honda 125-349 cc
06 06 588 Yamaha 125-349cc
06 06 651 Yamaha 350cc or greater
06 06 659 Honda Civic/CRX, del Sol
05 07 565 KIA Sorento
05 07 679 Honda CR-V
05 06 570 Peterbilt - Unknown engine
05 06 573 Toyota Tacoma
05 06 575 Chevrolet Impala/Caprice
05 06 659 Toyota RAV4 *
05 06 668 Chrysler 300M/300/300C/300S
05 06 678 Dodge Charger
05 05 458 KIA Forte
05 05 527 Honda 450-749 cc
05 05 613 Freightliner - CBE
05 05 631 Chevrolet Camaro
05 05 636 Dodge Journey
05 05 642 Nissan/Datsun Kicks
05 05 661 KIA Optima
05 05 695 Ford Escape
04 08 437 Ford Expedition
04 06 666 Subaru WRX
04 04 456 Nissan/Datsun Frontier
04 04 480 GMC Terrain
04 04 481 Honda Fit
04 04 507 Mercedes-Benz GLC Class
04 04 531 Ford Ranger
04 04 537 Dodge Caravan/Grand Caravan
04 04 611 Honda Accord
04 04 611 Mitsubishi Outlander
04 04 621 Tesla (Model 3)
04 04 626 Subaru Forester
04 04 638 Kawasaki 750cc or greater
04 04 696 Ford Fiesta
04 04 700 GMC pickup/ Sierra
03 05 615 Buick / Opel Encore
03 05 687 Ford Edge
03 04 476 Jeep- Jeep Grand Cherokee
03 04 514 Subaru Ascent
03 04 530 Kenworth - CBE
03 04 616 Buick / Opel Envision
03 04 676 Chevrolet Trax
03 04 679 Ford EcoSport
03 03 233 Land Rover Range Rover
03 03 255 Peterbilt - CBE
03 03 280 Mack - CBE
03 03 363 Chevrolet G-series van
03 03 386 Chevrolet Cruze
03 03 407 BMW 750cc and over
03 03 442 Dodge Durango
03 03 452 Toyota Highlander
03 03 455 Hyundai Tucson
03 03 479 Subaru Outback
03 03 483 Suzuki 350-449cc
03 03 517 International Harvester/Navistar - CBE
03 03 529 Jeep- Jeep Compass
03 03 592 KIA Sportage
03 03 602 Yamaha 750cc or greater
03 03 632 Honda 750 cc or greater
03 03 694 Chevrolet Colorado
02 05 382 Chevrolet - CBE
02 05 429 Nissan/Datsun Pathfinder
02 04 241 GMC Suburban/Yukon XL
02 03 378 Subaru XV Crosstrek
02 03 481 Toyota C-HR
02 03 544 KIA Rio/Rio5
02 03 555 Ford Van-Based Vehicle
02 03 694 Chevrolet Suburban
02 02 114 Ford Explorer
02 02 140 GMC Pickup
02 02 257 Chrysler Pacifica
02 02 325 Nissan/Datsun NV200/eNV200
02 02 362 Infiniti QX80
02 02 373 Jeep- Jeep YJ series/Wrangler
02 02 381 Buick / Opel LaCrosse
02 02 429 Kenworth - CBE
02 02 445 Hyundai Kona
02 02 456 Mitsubishi Mirage
02 02 479 Peterbilt - CBE
02 02 483 Chevrolet Fullsize Blazer/Tahoe
02 02 505 Chevrolet Spark
02 02 528 GMC Acadia
02 02 545 Nissan/Datsun Murano
02 02 549 Honda 350-449 cc
02 02 554 Toyota Prius *
02 02 556 Ford Transit Connect
02 02 590 Peterbilt - CBE
02 02 596 Toyota 4-Runner
02 02 619 Acura TLX
02 02 652 Jeep- Jeep Gladiator
02 02 676 Buick / Opel Enclave
02 02 694 Hyundai Ioniq
02 02 724 Suzuki 750cc-over
01 02 144 Cadillac CTS/CTC
01 02 162 Honda Civic/CRX, del Sol
01 02 209 Audi S4
01 02 247 Jaguar F-Pace
01 02 277 Ford Transit
01 02 282 Porsche 718
01 02 321 Chevrolet Cruze
01 02 330 Honda Passport
01 01 5 Kawasaki 125-349cc
01 01 9 Ford Fiesta
01 01 10 Cadillac XT5
01 01 20 Lincoln MKC
01 01 33 Chevrolet Traverse
01 01 37 Mercedes-Benz SL Class
01 01 40 Cadillac Other
01 01 41 Honda Civic/CRX, del Sol
01 01 62 Isuzu - COE, low entry
01 01 70 Chevrolet Corvette
01 01 88 Honda Unknown cc
01 01 91 Alfa Romeo Giulia
01 01 101 Toyota Sienna
01 01 115 Porsche Cayenne
01 01 123 Lincoln Navigator
01 01 128 Ducati 750cc or greater
01 01 132 BMW 125-349cc
01 01 141 Kawasaki Unknown cc
01 01 143 Toyota Avalon
01 01 149 Honda Ridgeline
01 01 150 Toyota 86
01 01 165 Ford Pickup
01 01 165 Toyota Tundra
01 01 173 Mercedes-Benz SPRINTER
01 01 173 Triumph 750cc or greater
01 01 174 KIA Telluride
01 01 174 Yamaha 350-449cc
01 01 179 Yamaha 350cc or greater
01 01 181 Ford - CBE
01 01 181 Honda 0- 50 cc
01 01 183 Ford Flex
01 01 183 BMW X5
01 01 188 Honda HR-V
01 01 194 Audi Q5
01 01 198 GMC Canyon
01 01 204 Ford Taurus/Taurus X
01 01 205 Ford Van-Based Vehicle
01 01 206 Honda Unknown cc
01 01 207 Suzuki 450-749cc
01 01 210 Subaru Impreza
01 01 219 Volkswagen Golf/Cabriolet
01 01 226 Acura MDX
01 01 228 Hyundai Santa Fe
01 01 228 Harley-Davidson Unknown cc
01 01 235 Mazda Miata/MX-5
01 01 236 Volkswagen Other
01 01 237 International Harvester/Navistar - CBE
01 01 242 GMC G-series van/Savana
01 01 247 Yamaha 450-749cc
01 01 253 Kawasaki 450-749cc
01 01 261 Cadillac XT4
01 01 261 Hyundai Veloster
01 01 266 Ford Mustang/Mustang II
01 01 269 Bluebird Bus: Front engine, Flat front
01 01 271 BMW X3
01 01 273 Ford F-Series pickup
01 01 278 Mercedes-Benz SLC Series
01 01 282 Chevrolet Van-Based Vehicle
01 01 284 Mazda CX5
01 01 289 Honda Insight
01 01 293 Infiniti Q50
01 01 305 Yamaha Unknown cc
01 01 312 Mitsubishi Mirage
01 01 323 Tesla (Model S)
01 01 326 Infiniti QX60
01 01 327 Volvo XC90
01 01 328 Ford - CBE
01 01 328 Suzuki Unknown cc
01 01 332 Acura RDX
01 01 335 Toyota Yaris
01 01 345 Ford Mustang/Mustang II
01 01 345 Lexus LC Series
01 01 351 Infiniti QX50
01 01 359 Buick / Opel Cascada
01 01 360 GMC Fullsize Jimmy/Yukon

Bob Wilson

Trollbait · Nov 30, 2024 at 8:40 PM

I don't think the IIHS and CR methods track on unsafe a model is to pedestrians and occupants of other cars.

Leadfoot J. McCoalroller · Nov 30, 2024 at 8:56 PM

Trollbait said: ↑

I don't think the IIHS and CR methods track on unsafe a model is to pedestrians and occupants of other cars.
Click to expand...

Does anybody track injuries etc to occupants of "the other car?"

I mean, neat to know, but doesn't seem like the sort of data most companies would want collected.

Featured Prius, Tesla and other, 23 most dangerous cars

austingreen Senior Member

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

hill High Fiber Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

Gokhan Senior Member

Gokhan Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

hill High Fiber Member

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

Gokhan Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

wjtracy Senior Member

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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Featured Prius, Tesla and other, 23 most dangerous cars

austingreen Senior Member

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

hill High Fiber Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

Gokhan Senior Member

Gokhan Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

hill High Fiber Member

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

Gokhan Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

wjtracy Senior Member

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

Isaac Zachary Senior Member

bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

Trollbait It's a D&D thing

Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member