Prius Recall due to floor mats? 2 yrs ago Prius owners said there's more to it than that...

I am with you. I am not trying to be mean, but a moron who can't drive the car properly is making everyone panic? I have had stuck throttle, lost my brakes in multiple cars in different situations, each time I have done something to soften the blow and in most cases diffuse the situation. Just two months ago, I accidently rolled my car down a 15 degree hill with no brakes in reverse. I came down the hill at 20-25mph. At first I was looking for a soft spot to hit, then I realize I can rev the engine and drop the clutch to stop the car that way. A Lexus ES350 can't go from 80-140 in anything less than 10 sec, you telling me he doesn't have enough time to think about using netural or try other things other than to ride the brakes.

 

That sounds a lot like this quote: Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain, a Biography

 

Unfortunately a huge number of readers here seem to 'know' all the particulars, without waiting for the final investigation reports to be released.

From past incidents I've seen, sometimes these assumptions are right, but more often they are wrong.

 

i tested my '08 Prius the last couple of days

WOT at 30 MPH
then increasing at 10 MPH increments
shifting to Neutral at each interval immediately disengaged the transmission, and also disengaged the throttle, even with the accelerator fully depressed
tried this from 30 MPH up to 80 MPH at 10 MPH intervals

same test using the PARK button ... after 3 MPH the car will immediately shift to Neutral when depressing PARK

there was no lag time in either test

fortunately i was not rear ended this week,
but i was rear ended one month ago, and have 20 weeks of PT to deal with

 

right after picking up my car from the body shop back then, I noti

Yes, that's right. When the motor mount broke and the engine torqued to one side, it bent the linkage between the carburator and the firewall area. The 'old days' of mechanical linkage between the gas pedal and engine.

I noticed the twist/torque feel of the engine very soon picking it up from the body shop after repairs. Although they replaced the linkage, never "linked" the bending with the broken motor mount... Had to return to the shop for replacement.

Some folks may feel more comfy with that pre-drive by wire mechanical link - I'll take computer-controlled electronics every day. Unless/until there's failures in that tech too...
And watchful of the floor mats - glad to have the sturdily-mounted '10 mats...

 

I meant it sarcastically, because the dealer had one of those bulls*** packages that was $600-$1000 that included a bunch of fake stuff and floormats, etc. Basically one of those profit-padders that they refused to remove or discount. I also paid $300 for a $50 tint job from the dealer. But they gave me a ton for my POS LandRover LR3 trade-in (not C4C!) that was about to die so it's all even.

 

I wondered about that also, I have tried this test before but I wasn't sure I had done it at full throttle. So yesterday I got up to about 40 MPH held the throttle to the floor and put it in N. No problems whatever, it goes into Neutral in 1 second (not 2 seconds as previously reported in other threads), the engine slows to idle speed, and everything keeps working just fine, as Philobeddoe reported above. I repeated the test several times and it works the same way each time. When you see it works you can just go back to D and drive on down the road. Give it a try.

I have used the power button to do the test also, as Fstr911 describes, my results were the same as he posted. If you decide to do a test using the power button you need to be going fast enough so the car doesn't actually try to go int park, anything over 10 MPH is fine. But as everyone else has suggested N is the best choice anyway because it's quicker.

It should also be said that if your throttle is stuck wide open you can stop the car with the brakes. You have to put them on good and hard and they will have more than enough power to overcome the engine, even on cars with a lot more power that our Prius. The way you could get into trouble would be if you just applied the brakes part way, then they might overheat to the point where they wouldn't work any more.

 

FWIW - I think this AOL Autos editor did a pretty good job (better than ABC) of reporting, summarizing and balancing the known facts and issues, and the personal, Toyota and gov't experiences and responses:

Runaway Toyotas: Fact Or Fiction?

 

I'm sorry, but this is too good to pass up!........

And being a good driver... just exactly "how" did you accidentally roll your car down a 15 degree hill backwards?

 

Good article, thanks!

I agree with most comments which say that if the problem occurs there are ways to get the car under control, fortunately.

However, I don't think that we can assume the problem is exclusively due to floor mats, when there are documented cases where there were no floor mats in the vehicle, or the floor mats were proper and in the right position, simply because the runaway throttle control problem cannot be re-created in testing conditions. The article has a good quote:

""So far nobody has been able to recreate the computer glitch that would cause the car to take off," ABC's Brian Ross said. And perhaps that's the problem -- even Toyota and NHTSA can't recreate these horror stories."

We all know that it may be impossible to recreate a computer glitch except by chance. Some computer programing bugs are easy to find and fix some are just impossible to find and that's why there is no computer program on the market which can guarantee to be 100% bug free. I don't see why Toyota and other brands could not have a computer glitch which pops-up under weird conditions which have not been duplicated yet. It's just a very possible situation and it has nothing to do with trying to hide any problem, it's just not found - yet.

This could happen to any car manufacturer and/or any computer program IMHO. Saying "we have not been able to duplicate the problem" is very different than saying "there is no other problem than floor mats" ...

Again, whether the problem is simply the floor mat or a more twisted computer glitch, it seems possible to stop the car using the procedure mentioned and that's the most important part until someone can prove one way or another.

 

you are not going to be able to stop the car with the brakes if the floor mat is OVER the accelerator and UNDER the brake ... as forcing the brake to the floor serves to force the accelerator to the floor, but does not allow the brake to be fully depressed ... you are in fact telling the EFI to go to WOT, and you're glazing the brakes ...

and this is why the Lexus failed

there is no hardware error, there is no software glitch

 

It would be really exceptional that ALL the cases of runaway throttle which have hapened had a mat stuck the way described above. I really don't think a software glitch can be ruled out even if it cannot be demonstrated...

 

If phantom theoretical possibilities is the standard we're going by, then we also have to include the possibilities of divine intervention (maybe god just didn't like them) or alien interference. After all, these possibilities can't be demonstrated either, but I really don't think they should be ruled out... they are possible, after all.

 

you don't have to rule out anything

you can continue to look for demons in the shadows and under the bed, and plaintiff attorneys can spend years gouging toyota and other manufacturers with conspiracy theories

BUT there has never been a case of a surging accelerator that was proven ... sure we can debate burdens of proof, there are plenty of lawyers here, myself included ... and there are plenty of experienced gear heads, computer geeks and mechanics as well ... me again

BUT there has never been a case of a surging accelerator

it is PILOT ERROR

like i said, at the appropriate time you can PM me my crow, i'll take it with BBQ sauce and a side of fries

BUT it is PILOT ERROR

hit NEUTRAL or die ... that's what all the cool kids know :thumb:

 

LOL! I am sure you never experienced any undocumented software bug with any of your computers so far and that your OS has never ever crashed without reason... It will surely never happen to you, unless there is an evil intervention of course!

Computer glitches do happen (even on airplanes computers) and some are almost impossible to replicate, with or without divine intervention, ask a programmer (I did beta testing of software and hardware for over 10 years)! It may or may not be related to the runaway throttle problem, I don't know but I do believe that no one can tell 100% surely right now.

There will soon be a definitive answer to the problem anyway. If the problem is really caused by floor mats, now that they have been removed and/or secured we should not have any case of runaway throttle in the coming years. If there are no more problems after the "floor mat cure" , then there never was a computer glitch to start with, it's that easy!

 

you're right

 

In vehicle runaways, mechanical failures have been demonstrated. In a larger context, electrical failures, software errors, and EMC problems have been demonstrated with tragic consequences.

As much as many posters here wish it to be so, I've found it extremely unusual that after tens of thousands of detected faults, that exactly two fault modes (e.g. pilot error and floor mats) can account for precisely and exactly 100.000% of the faults.

Even when scarce, there are usually a few more devils hidden in there. And if any one incident is likely to be the case where such a devil is identified, it is likely to involve a so-called highly trained, professional driver. That is why I object to this Kangaroo Kourt passing sentence before the sheriff's investigation report is even written.

 

the simple explanation is often the correct and only explanation ... strange indeed

cue the kangaroos ...

 

'Often' is not identical to 'Always'.

Juries are often correct. But they are not always correct, which is why the Innocence Project is kept so busy springing prisoners from death row.

Despite this, many folks keep complaining about the execution delays that kept these inmates alive long enough to prove their innocence. Unfortunately for Cameron Todd Willingham, the appeals didn't cause enough delay.

 

Barry Scheck and Peter Neufeld were my trial and ethics professors in law school, so I appreciate the reference.

And I've been involved in capital cases, and even ruled on habeas corpus motions as a clerk in the federal court.

Let's not elevate this "conspiracy" to the level of a capital case

Your point is well made, and suggesting we should reserve judgment is sound.

Nevertheless, a responsible driver has an escape route (NEUTRAL)
and I remain skeptical of surging Toyotas based upon historical precedent and experience ... BLINK.