Prius Plug-in Updates

“The PiP really isn't for you. The engine has to run in order to heat the car, so if you live in a very cold climate you'll be running the engine most of the time. You're better off saving your money and spending it on other energy saving measures.
The same is true of the Volt and Ampera, although they would have the ability to pre-heat the car on the plug.
The PiP can't pre-heat the car on the plug. Toyota decided it wasn't worth the expense of a heat pump: the major hybrid markets (Japan and North America) use low voltage electricity supplies that would limit the heating ability from a regular socket and one of the selling points of the PiP is that you don't need to install a charger or high voltage socket.”

Are you sure that EV-mode has no heating?
I still realize that driving in cold conditions is bad in EV-mode.
I normally do many but small trips, perfect for a plugin, given that it’s possible
to charge at all places.
I have no problem with using 2 cords, one for pre-heating (engine+inside) and one for
charge battery.
I can use 230V or 380V when I charge.
1,5 hours to recharge is Ok.

 

Their is no heating in electric mode. The gas engine has to run to provide heat, but you can pre-heat the ICE by purchasing and plugging in an electric engine block heater. That would save fuel on heating up the coolant to provide heat inside the car.

This one is 120v for the U.S. I'm sure they have 230v models of this EBH for Europe.

 

Is the electric draw just too much for the electric heater to heat in EV mode? Has this been confirmed by Toyota?

Edit: in fact in this thread the Prius Team refutes that you have to run the engine to heat: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-h...le-range-87-mpge-32-000-a-10.html#post1389049

 

I have been looking for a more definitive answer on this as well.. and like you, I found that thread where Doug (from Toyota) made it sound like it could heat without running the engine. However, in this thread:

http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-plug-in/100465-does-pip-have-pre-heater.html

Forum members seem to go in-depth a bit more and conclude that the PiP has the PTC/heater that exists in current Prii? and if that is the case, then it seems that the PTC does not do very much in terms of heating the cabin. Someone even said that it may only be useful as a temporary heat source to "bridge the gap" while the engine warms up.

But I'm no expert.. I only know what I read here.. even then, I'm sure I'm missing something

 

See this thread.

Here, Doug Coleman, Toyota says the Plug-In DOES HAVE an electric heater.

It seems that the confusion lies in the fact that Toyota did away with the electric heat pump that they had in the pre-production Plug-in.

There is only pre-cooling using the remote. No pre-heating using the remote.

 

Jeff, The dealer is going to do the window tint and put in the door cups. The door cups are clear plastic and go in each "cup" behind the door handles to keep the paint from getting scratched from finger nails or anything like a house key that you might have in your hand when you open or close the car door. The dealer (Desert Toyota in Tucson) says that his window tint is laser cut from a template so that the tint perfectly fits each window. I guess I should ask him what percent the tint is. This dealer, because they are in Tucson, puts window tint on all his cars. I lived in Arizona for 16 years, I know that you have to have your windows tinted there. I now live in the Dallas area where I want them tinted. It doesn't get as hot here for as long as it does in Arizona. It does get over 100° F here and the humidity is high so you feel the heat more in Dallas than in the low humidity of Arizona. All the windows will be tinted except the windshield. Arizona Law says that the drivers and passenger doors have to allow at least 33% of the light in. In Texas the law says the driver's and passenger windows have to allow at least 25% of the light in, so the Arizona tint will be legal here.

Last August Temperatures from my Weather Station

 

Prices I posted are all without any addidtions.

Delivery costs another 679 EUR (Inclusief transport, kenteken en afl everingsbeurt).

I wanted to compare apples to apples (base price of the vehicle against the base price). You can't compare our base price against US base price + delivery + pearl paint + accessories

 

Not necessarily. Yes, cold climate will consume gasoline to run the heat, but it will also give some energy for the electric motor (like the regular Prius' heating stages). Also, when the engine will be warmed up, the vehicle will still run mostly on electric power, so the consumption may not be 4.4l/100km as the regular Prius, but only 2l/100km, because the most of the power to move will be delivered by electric motor from the battery.

 

Andi, you have to pay VAT, we have to pay state, and local taxes which are probably less than your VAT.
Your delivery cost is 679 EUR, Ours is 760 U.S. dollars.
These are costs we both have to pay, I thought you may want to see what ours are.
I have it listed, but there is nothing extra here for my paint.
We only pay extra ($220) for Blizzard Pearl (White) which requires an extra paint process (3 coats instead of the 2 required for other colors).

 

Agreed. We have VAT, which is 20% + a motor vehicle tax(0.5% for electric and PHEV) + enviromental tax (per kg of vehicle's mass).
However, the price without the VAT is still 32.764 EUR = 42.600 US$.

The Pearl color costs extra 750 EUR over here, which equates to 975 US$.

 

The Gen 2's had them in the US, but might not have had them in other countries. They got rid of it for the Gen 3's, which have exhaust heat recovery instead.

 

The point is that if, for Zalman's short trips the PiP has to run the engine to provide heat it's going to be wasting the biggest advantage of PHEV: eliminating or dramatically reducing the need to run a cold engine. His trips are short and he can plug in. He can use engine block heaters to warm up the engine and reduce warm-up. He'll also have heated seats to reduce the need for cabin heat. But if he needs cabin heat and the Prius can't provide it with its very small electric heater the engine will run every time he gets into a cold car which is precisely what he's trying to avoid.

The Volt and Ampera can precondition the car on the plug, reducing the need to run the gasoline engine for heat. I don't know whether that will be possible on a regular European socket. But, I believe they use the engine for heating.

The LEAF can precondition on a high-voltage plug and obviously heats using electricity. Again, I don't know whether that requires a high-amperage socket or a higher-Voltage European socket would suffice.

I just think that the PiP design means it's not set up for a very cold climate and unless Zalman has plenty of money spare and has exhausted other possibilities for efficiency improvements he'd be better off spending the plug-in premium elsewhere and revisiting at a later date when there might be better options available.

 

Prius Plug-in Hybrid Gets Improved 95 MPGe Rating | AutoGuide.com News

 

i brought this up in the other thread and it was never really addressed: what happens if you turn on AC and set the temperature to 70 when it's 30 outside? Because AC definitely runs off the plug, and if it achieves the final goal, who cares what you're running to get there (i.e. "heater" or "conditioner")?

 

The Volt/Ampera and LEAF can pre-condition the cabin temperature from the smartphone app. The Volt/Ampera can also be triggered to pre-condition using the key fob (not sure about LEAF). The Volt/Ampera and LEAF will pre-condition from battery when unplugged and will utilize grid power when plugged in. If they are plugged in to a lower wattage plug like 120V they will draw from both the plug and battery and then may continue to draw from the plug after pre-conditioning to restore the battery to a full charge. Heating takes more power than cooling and may draw 3-5 kW. The Volt/Ampera will pre-condition up to 10 minutes but can be manually restarted for another 10 minutes maximum if needed during very cold temperatures. The Volt/Ampera may start the gas engine for 1-2 minutes to assist with heating if the outdoor temperature is below 26 F or -4C.

 

the engine can provide heat in one minute in temperatures below 26 degrees f?

 

I wondered the same thing but I never read anyone actually say if it would work. But I see that the Remote A/C feature was offered in the 2010+ Prius and I found this thread which is essentially asking the same question:

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ifying-remote-air-conditioning-also-heat.html

It sounds as though the electric heating element will be used to try and heat the air/cabin, although DaveInOlyWA says it doesnt really provide any significant heat.

I also found this video from Toyota that discusses the Remote A/C feature. In it, it says that the Remote A/C will not work if the "Temperature is set too high".. but the voice over says something to the effect that it will not work if the temperature is set to max heat.

So if the Remote A/C in the PiP is anything like the current Remote A/C feature, then it appears it will try to heat the cabin using the electric heating element, but it may not actually work that well for heat.

Maybe someone who owns a Gen3 with Remote A/C would know better and could give us a better clue.. it doesnt seem like a popular option since I have never heard too much about it (in fact, I didnt even know it existed prior to the PiP.. although I'm definitely no expert).

 

The video also states that the remote control A/C will not work if the outside temperature is lower than the climate control temperature setting. In other words, you can't warm the car up (no heat) in this manner.

Your only option for heat in the PiP is turning on the ICE or using the heated seats.

 

Its been posted at gm-volt.com that there is a pending update for the volt/ampera owerners to change the temp where the ICE will start. If not someone will locate the sensor so we can disable that feature (when its unwanted). About 1/3 of my gas usage in the past 3 months has been because of that "feature".