Prius Plug-In Production Car to be Revealed On Press Day 13 Sept

OK now, some data to play with

4.4 kwh nominal capacity
1.5 hours to full charge at 240 V mains
? 10 amps ?

That would mean 3.6 kwh useable, for 14.3 miles. And 80% DoD. Sounds reasonable
CD efficiency is 3600/14.3 = 251 wh/mile

If charge losses are 15%, then wall-wheel is 251/.85 = 295.3 wh/mile

If EV range is also 14.3 miles by EPA testing, mpg(e) will be 33,400/295.3 = 113.

These calcs compare nicely with the Euro stated 134.5 Uk miles/gallon, or 112 US MPG.

 

Thanks for posting this, Danny... Seems to be all good news so far. I wonder if the focus on the Nav/Entertainment system means we shall get Entune in the US?

 

I can't believe Toyota would base their estimate on the EPA. I'm sure LEAF owners would tell you that they definitely don't need 340Wh/mi.

 

^^ I hope not. MS -- blech

 

Oh, I'm pretty confident in my guess that Toyota is basing EV range on either the EPA or NDEC cycle. Use of an easier cycle like Nissan and GM did just sets the company up for charges of hype. Particularly so in GM's case, since they were not forthright in saying what drive cycle was used. Since Toyota has not specified a drive cycle either, I reason that a more demanding cycle underlies the press release.

 

It won't be 14.3 in EPA testing.

BTW, there is a problem with EPA testing of Prius PHV. Unlike Volt, Prius will not run in pure EV mode at highway speeds. That means EPA can only use urban cycle to test PHV and not the highway cycle. So, they won't be able to give a combined rating ...

 

Ouch! no tax credit for < 5kwh

 

^^ You had that error corrected already in another post. Are you reduced to trolling ?
A drop of common sense should tell you that Toyota would not skimp on 0.5 kwh of battery capacity if it meant $2500 in subsidy lost.

 

incorrect, its 4KW or more, it qualifies for $2500 credit

State & Federal Incentives | Plug In America

"For Cars

$2,500 to $7,500 tax credit, depending on size of battery (4 kWh to 16 kWh), for electric-drive vehicles (EVs and PHEVs) sold after December 31, 2008. This is the best and biggest new incentive brought on by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (stimulus bill), and applies to at least 200,000 units per auto manufacturer before it phases out."

 

maybe not Montana highway speeds - but here in So Cal on a GOOD day you'd be lucky to do stretches of 55mph-60mph ... and on my test drive, the PHEV was doing just fine in EV mode, at those speeds. You don't have to do 75 - 80 in order to call it highway speed.

 

Well, the LEAF gets 109 miles on the NEDC. Nissan said 100 miles.

So, if Toyota are using the NEDC they must be hyping it.

I can't believe they'd use the EPA: it's an economy rating based on drivers who don't care about economy.

 

My error, I posted it quickly in a couple of threads and am trying to go back and correct now. I concur it will qualify for the base $2500 credit.

 

Awesome! We have a feature list for the new MYPRIUS 2012. Now we just need a confirmed release date, and pricing....

Hopefully it will be before the end of the 2011... but with those fleet charts linked on the forums it probably won't be... =(

 

Well???? Today is the day, right???

 

3.6 of a 4.4kWh feels too aggressive for Toyota. My own out-my-nice person numbers:

4.4 kwh nominal capacity
1.5 hours to full charge at 240 V mains
? 12 amps ?

That's 4.3 into the battery vs. 3.7 testers reported in the preproduction cars. Assuming equivalent charging efficiency, let's call it 3.2 kWh usable. Even 72% of the pack still seems high to me.

3200/14.3 = 224 Wh.

No reason to expect charging efficiency to be dramatically better than the tester cars: 224/0.75 = 299 Wh/mi. Nearly the same result, different path but no real idea what it means relative to other cars.

The light weight is nice to see. Since the city cycle results are essentially a proxy for weight with a well designed EV powertrain (that is, NOT a Smart...), I can believe 30kWh/100mi. Not sure they'll include that info on the EPA sticker though. As evnow says, it can't complete the HWY cycle and the new stickers only show combined numbers.

 

what ... for price? maybe Toyota meant 'partial reveal'. If Toyota waits long to reveal price, it's likely because they wana see how much more worthless paper money the U.S. Treasury will print between now and first sales. It's just a thought -because a sharp swing in the yen to do dollar values could mean the difference between brisk sales, versus mediocre/GM sales levels.

.

 

For technical details. No price yet.

14.3 miles good enough for your commute?

PS Don Meyer drove a Prius and he won lots of, oh never mind ...

 

Toyota is quoting a euro, not an american range number of 23km. I don't think you can read anything from that. Certainly if the prius uses a gas it can use less than 300 Wh/mi, but we don't know that strategy. Certainly driven the same way, if staying all electric the prius phv is going to do worse than the tesla roadster, so any numbers much higher lack reality.

There should be a city/highway/combined break out for blended mode on the fueleconomy.gov site. I doubt they will do a ev city/blended highway. It will all just read blended. The numbers will be highly dependent on programming there are good reasons to believe the programming with be different than the demo cars. Toyota needs to step up to the plate and give us EPA estimates.

Well for those that were mad at gm for hyping and not telling epa figures or prices, toyota now has been in this game for years. I don't think that is fair for either car, but maybe the hype mongers can tell us EPA and price.

I think its just business as usual for a big car company. They do a big press event but don't show the key information. The lack of disclosure of EPA driving cycles may reflect a negotiation to change the way blended mode is measured. The lack of pricing information is likely so they can get people to continue to write how inexpensive the car will be when the reality may not be so good. There are competitive reasons also, as the information may help ford trump toyota on their press release.

Toyota has already stated 20K units for the first year. They aren't going to be producing nearly as many prius phvs as the ramped up leaf and volt when the car comes out. The sales will be constrained by production as they are by those other cars in the first year.

 

never mind

 

50k units the first year by the press release today, although I do not think Toyota specified which markets are included.