Prius PHV: A toe in the pond before Tesla batteries?

And another thing: I don't think we will ever see anything like Tesla's pack in a normal production car due to expense. Everything from here on out will be using large format cells. I also don't think we will see per-cell equalization, only monitoring.

 

Well that is exactly what I said, the phv prius will not have EV range on the sticker. The EPA has a blended mode sticker for blended mode phevs like the phv prius. The EV range is for BEVs and PHEVs that can stay in EV mode under normal acceleration. The phv prius will get an mpge in charge depletion cyle combining the gasoline and electricity it uses, as well as mpg in cs mode.

I'm not quite sure why people don't think that the phv prius is a blended phev. The engine comes on under normal American acceleration. This is a different engineering choice than the volt which has an ev range. Whether you think blended or ev with extended range plug in hybrids are better I hope we can all agree that they should have the best batteries. Isn't that the topic here?

These are not vehicles for sale, and thus do not require a epa sticker for mileage or any mileage testing. Toyota does have the epa test procedure now, and could test them and provide the mpe information though.

Limited production normally means vehicles for sale. At least in the united states these are strictly test vehicles and follow different rules.

 

I think we have the rav 4 bev and tesla s using these cells.
I don't think anyone will trust them with a CARB 10 or 15 year warranty in a phev, but using economies of consumer cells is here at least for 2012 bev vehicle introductions.

 

Apparently Nissan thought EPA will not use the arbitrary 30% fudge factor. But EPA did - otherwise the rating would be above 100 combined even though Nissan only claimed 100 on LA4.

Anyway, they got a 100 from FTC so they can advertise as such.

Ford, wisely, decided not to give a number at all.

 

EPA Urban cycle exceeds 50mph in the first 220-300seconds. This "minute only" takes a lot of difference in this case, which Prius PHV starts its ICE.
Maybe it does not qualify for EV operation only during all testing until battery depletion.
Marking as zero for EV range is a bit akward, since from 0-220 it has really ran some distance. But ok, let's wait.

AG, we want the best batteries for our PHV, for sure...I believe Toyota has been testing to achieve the best for the consumers, even if not totally understood by the market, which is not very informed. 0 range EV would be a bad sticker, I agree, but MPGe will speak por itself, as I said.

 

read post 20 please

and your right but a 3000 cycle or 2000 cycle battery will far outlast a 300cycle one

 

Let's wait until we see what they ship with before we say what we have. Toyota actually has a lot of PHV's running around, but it's specs could change drastically before it enters full production.

Look what happened with the Volt!

 

I am in agreement with that. I think part of the disagreement between us on these matters is just the language barrier. The epa sticker will show how many kwh and gallons to go different distances, and the website even allows users to plug in their own costs for electricity and gasoline for better estimates. My main point was you can't directly compare leaf range with phv range since one is pure electric and the other is blended. There are other measures. The edmund's comparison test of running the prius with and without charged batteries, then guessing how far it went on electricity from these numbers, just is not a very useful number. The mpge of the epa, although controversial, at least tries to fairly measure things and provides testing procedures.

 

Hey, I think your problem is with USB not me. He is the one criticising the Nissan numbers.

On the fudge factor, they should have known, but I don't think sales are being hurt by the epa sticker. Consumers understand. I doubt they or gm will use the ftc numbers which allow them to continue saying what they were saying before the epa test was devised. Personally I would like ev's (bev and hev) to go through the 5 epa tests and report numbers from each. For me the air conditioning test is most important, for others the cold, etc. These things aren't perfect but at least allow some comparison. People should know about the 30% fudge factor and I even posted a link to the test procedure from your previous post on foia.

 

I'm in complete agreement here. As I said in my earlier post, I doubt toyota would be waiting this long if there were not positive changes versus the demonstration vehicles.

On the carb thing, I am saying that carbs rules will prevent a manufacturer like toyota from using tesla type battery packs in a phev. Their bizzare excuse for the long warentee requirement is if the battery dies the phev will still run and polute more. What they have decided is a phv prius needs a much more stringent warenty than a honda accord to get the same emmisions rating.

Toyota will be using tesla type batteries in the BEV RAV4, whose batteries to not come under CARBs warenty policy for hybrid and phev vehicles.

 

I know - but I've no interest in fighting with him

There was a lot of confusion last year as to what tests would actually be used. I believe, there are some new tests planned - but they got pushed to next year.