Prius or Jetta TDI

Whoops, I missed that part. Need me to take care of it? I enjoy that sort of work ....

That Shell station on Pembina, near the south Perimeter. I had a wash code from gassing up, and went to turn sharply to drive over to the car wash.

I swore I missed you by a coat of paint

 

Thanks a lot! In your 80 mile hwy trips, what is your cruising speed? The problem of the Prius, at least the 2010, is that it does well only if I keep the hwy cruising speeds bellow 70 MPH, preferable bellow 65 actually.

 

Please point me to credible reliability studies w/sufficient sample size. I couldn't find any in my quick searches.

Market share has little to do to nothing to do w/reliability. GM sells more vehicles in the US than Toyota but that doesn't mean that GM vehicles are more reliable. I was just in Korea and guess what? Most of the cars there were Korean cars: Hyundais, GM Daewoos, Renault Samsung Motors (yes they make cars), Kias and others that didn't recognize. I hardly saw any Japanese cars. Doesn't mean that the Korean cars are more reliable.

 

FYI, my family's business in Brazil (Dad, brothers, sister in law, uncles) is on auto shops, for over 40 years, anything from working several years in a VW dealer, Fiat dealer, or running private auto or body shops. They know well what's reliable or not, they are subscribers to all auto magazines who measure reliability and I don't have access to them here in the US, and even if I had, would it matter? How sharp is your Portuguese? Anyway, the only thing I found was an internet public poll in a famous website... but since I said you would have to find it by yourself if you want… I’m already doing more than I should here:

http://listas.br101.org/top10-marcas-de-carro-confianca.html

I was surprised to see Toyota is coming in second in this poll, but my family always told me that Toyota struggles for market share in Brazil because of maintenance costs and reliability used to be an issue but it is not so much anymore.

Now, VW are with no question the most reliable cars in that part of the world, and it's not only there, I have close friends that live in Argentina, Chile, etc... and they all seem to agree that VW rules there!

 

indy - my cruising speed ranges between 65 to 70mph, bumping up to 75 at times... I am not a heavy foot driver.. I do find that the Jetta will provide the performance I stated at those speed ranges.. Anything higher, I assume will lessen the fuel effeciency.. With the Prius the same but I try to stay more in the 65 range.. I find that it is the best speed for max fuel performance.. When I go higher in speed the mgp will start to drop some.. Hope this helps.. Best

 

Probably. On the 2010 Golf Wagon, the seats in the Comfortline and Highline look the same, but the leather seats in the Highline felt a lot better

With the 2010 Camry, there is a huge difference. The base LE cloth seats are unimpressive. You can get the XLE in a 4 cylinder, which has leather seats with lumbar: light years better seat construction and feel

At least they felt better while in the showroom. Not sure how the Camry experience translates onto the open road.

 

Thanks a lot, yes it does help! Every car gets a MPG hit the faster you drive, but compared to my previous cars, I believe the hit in the Prius is disproportional, especially above 70, that's the reason I asked. I don't have the patience to cruise under 70, but I'm driving around 75 because when I tried 80, the MPG in the Prius droped to around 40! Anyway, thanks again for all the info... very helpful!

 

I drive a lot in the hwy, mostly 5-6 hour trips, and I can say that, at least for me, the driver cloth seat in my Prius model III is not comfortable at all. It is giving me all sorts of back pain, not only lumbar, so I will have to do something about it. Any suggestions of what I could do?

 

There are two factors to automobile reliability: 1) the inherent reliability of the car, and 2) the support system - mechanics, dealers, parts availability, etc. Without a good support system, even the most reliable cars will eventually fail. We experienced this when we owned a Subaru in northern Ohio. It always took three trips to the dealer to get anything fixed, and little things became big problems. I blamed it on Subaru.

When we moved back to northern Michigan, there were a LOT of Subarus running around. The local dealer was excellent, and some of the independent shops were even better. Our Subaru problems largely vanished. Same car, different support system.

VW has manufactured and sold a lot of cars in South America. I suspect their support system is excellent. Given this, you can't infer that VW quality is better in South America. You can infer that VW quality in South America is perceived as much better than Toyota quality in South America, but there is no way to compare VW quality in South America to that of VW quality in North America given the information in this thread. It might be better, but we can't say with the current information.

Tom

 

Agree and disagree at the same time. Yes, reliability depends on support and part of lower reliability of Toyota compared to VW in South America is indeed caused by that. Toyota dealers are scarce in that part of the world, it cost a fortune to have the car serviced or fixed by Toyota dealers there, and general mechanics don't have the experience to deal with Toyotas like they have with VWs in Brazil. However, based on the experience of my family members and friends, they also confirm that VW usually, at least in Brazil and surrounding countries, have indeed less problems and are more durable compared to other brands.

 

This is precisely what I said. Where do we disagree?

Tom

 

I guess I agree more than disagree with you, but I was under the impression you said VW reliability in South America is mostly a function of good service instead of good and durable cars, which is simply not true. Like I said before my family and friends there, altogether, have dozens of VWs and other brands too and their VWs rarely have any problem. Before buying my Prius, I had a hard time explaining to my Dad and brothers in Brazil that Toyota was a better choice here in the US as far as reliability, they woudn’t believe, well, they still don't...

 

Rephrasing and summarizing, my points were:

1) The support system is a factor in the perceived reliability of any car.

2) The support systems in South America favor VW.

3) From the given data, we have no way to compare the actual reliability of South American VWs with North American VWs. All we know is that people in South America find VWs more reliable than Toyotas, while people in North America find Toyotas more reliable than VWs. This could be caused by a variation in VW reliability, a variation in Toyota reliability, or both, once again factoring in the appropriate support networks.

On point #3 above, mostly I want to dispel the notion that we can automatically conclude that VWs in South America are somehow more reliable than those in North America. It may be true, but we have no supporting evidence. Note that your families' experience does not support this end. What it supports is the supposition that in South America VWs have better reliability than Toyotas.

Tom

 

Well, when talking to other people and looking at car blogs in the internet here in the US, it seems pretty obvious that VWs are trouble and gives all sorts of problems along the road. That's exactly the opposite impression I have from the general population in Brazil regarding the VWs there, independent from service. So, even though these are somewhat empiric observations, it seems clearly to me that VWs built for South America (often built in Brazil) have better quality compared to those sold in US (wherever they are built). That's all I'm saying.

 

Jayman, I bought the 'IV' package only because it has the power lumbar support. It bugs me that Toyota (Honda too, for that matter) will only put this kind of thing bundled with all the other stuff that adds thousands of $$. Even cheap-a$$ Chevy Cobalts can come with a decent lumbar support. But, I've personally found the seat in the '10 IV lightyears nicer on my effed-up back than the seat in my parents' '08.

Agreed about the wheel--in a $20k+ car, it's about time they stuck a crowbar in their corporate wallet and ponied up for a wheel that telescopes. A base Ford Focus has it, for crying out loud. I wish the wheel came out a bit farther, but it is a big improvement.

I have to say the driving dynamics of the Jetta TDI are better, but, surprisingly to me, the lumbar support wasn't as good (for me) as that on the Prius. (I considered it at the time of purchase, and went with the Prius for reliability and also because I think once the economy turns around the price of diesel in the US will go up much more proportionately than that of gasoline).

Right now, the Prius is in the shop after a pretty bad crash, and may be totaled. If so, I might take a look at the new Golf TDI. When I was shopping, the price of the Jetta with 7yr/100K extended warranty was about the same as that of the Prius, and there is more dickering room with VW. Unforthunately both dealership networks seem to be populated with some of the least knowledgeable, couldn't-care-less, "just-shut-up-and-go-away" service staff. The only consistently good dealer experience I've had has been with Acura, but I don't like the way their vehicles are trending these days--all lux, no performance. But you do get a lumbar support...

 

Good point. It makes sense that you would see more complaints if VWs had as many problems down there too. Maybe it's all of the Germans that emigrated after WWII.

Tom

 

Well, the number of Japanese immigrants is comparable to Germans in Brazil, but the Germans came earlier...

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Brazil]Immigration to Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

Yeah, I guess that would be my only choice unless I replace the whole seat...

I will open a thread later asking for suggestions?