Prius Myths and their Rebuttals

Some people care more about reducing emissions and gasoline consumption. All of the vehicles you mention get terrible fuel efficiency and produce much more harmful emissions than a Prius. If all you care about is your wallet then you are right, keep running your clapped out old cars since they are paid off.

If You care about the security of the nation and the air quality our citizens have to breath then I would suggest buying a better car when you can afford it.

 

Newer dosent always = Better.

How much energy is used producing the vehicle?

Shipping parts and whatnot from Japan to here.
All of said parts being delivered to the assembly plant, wherever that may be.
Delivering the cars to a dealership

Arent I being more responsible continuing to drive my older vehicles?

Why must you guys assume my car is a clapped out hunk of shit in every post? Just curious.

 

actually, more energy is wasted during vehicle use than in production if the mpg is much worse than the Prius and if repairs are high. All of this has been explained over and over. Maybe you could benefit from reading up on the GREET model from Argonne National Laboratories.

 

Sorry 1996Daytona, your cars aren't worth all that much, but that's cool. I used to be kidded about being the king of the beaters. Once had a big block 460 Lincoln back when gas was around $1.20. Bought the car for $1000 and sold it five years later for $400. The economics worked out, but the best move I made was making my next car a Honda Civic.

If you don't drive many miles, then driving fuel inefficient older cars does make sense from a financial and a fun stand point. The only fun I have with my Prius is seeing if I can get 54 mpg instead of my boring average of 51.4.

 

@ GBC Texas Prius - Never said they were worth a lot, but I love 'em. Although my Montego was a nice barn find in Iowa with 45,000 miles on it, and the original Plates/Registration.

@ F8L - Perhaps you could explain to me how such varibiles such as "much worse mpg" and "repairs are high" would work out to actual figures?

Im a concrete thinker, I gotta see it or it dosent make sense.

You guys have to remember I drive only around 18k a year spread out on 3 cars. How would a prius benefit me?

 

much strictier emissions standards

Your old vehicles are gross polluters due to lax emissions standards for when they were produced vs. current vehicles, esp. the Prius. Per Side-by-Side Comparison, the 2010 Prius (2011 is unchanged but n/a for some reason) gets a 8 or 9.5/10 for the EPA air pollution score. Take a look at the emission limits at http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf for a 8 or 9.5 vs. vehicles of your vintage. Go to the last page of that PDF for definitions of those pollutants and Smog/Regional Transport of Ozone | Clean Air Markets | Air & Radiation Home | US EPA to read about smog. These scores have no relationship to CO2 emissions

Besides that, because of their high fuel consumption, they emit large amounts of CO2. For the EPA's driving profile of 15K miles/year, a 3rd gen Prius would emit 3.8 tons of CO2/year vs. your 96 Dakota's 13.3 tons.

 

As I started in my first reply, some things are more important than return on investment. I did not purchase the Pruis to save money. I purchased it to reduce emissions output and to reduce oil consumption. If you choose to drive older cars that are paid off then buying a Prius is not going to save you money until you've driven enough miles to accumulate enough savings in fuel. In my cas it will take about 7yrs or so to average out but in the mean time I have a newer car, less repair bills, and MUCH lower oil consumption and MUCH reduced air pollution. I'ved saved over $20,000 in fuel costs since selling my 2001 GMC 4X4.

13mpg average x 18,000 miles = 1384ga/yr x $3.00/ga = $4153 annual fuel cost

45mpg average x 18,000 miles = 400ga/yr x $3.00/ga = $1200 annual fuel cost

As you can see, the fuel savings alone could quickly pay for the purchase price of the Prius if you shopped around for a used one.

From an economical standpoint, a use Prius can make sense, especially when dealing with unreliable older cars. However, there are social implications that your older vehicles do not help with and that is why some of use purchase these cars. It has nothing to do with being better than anyone else, it has everything to do with trying to reduce our impact as much as possible given specific lifestyles.

 

Also keep in mind that the extra 984 gallons/year is an extra 6199.2 pounds of gasoline. That comes from oil that needs be explored for, drilled, shipped to a refiner, and refined. The refined product has to be shipped to your gas station and your vehicle has to carry it as dead weight. Burning that extra gasoline also produces an extra 19680 pounds of CO2 (How can 6 pounds of gasoline create 19 pounds of Carbon dioxide?).

 

You continually mention "unreliable older car", I ask, do you have experience driving older vehicles? Do you know how to work on cars, or does someone else?

I do all matenience myself. everything. Therefore, the repairs are all parts, and my time. Never been stranded yet by my cars (knock on wood). Thats called Old-School American built with pride.

I still fail to see why I should buy a car based on emissions. I dont think it'll make a difference. If car "A" is a "horrible polluter" and costs 10k but the same vehicle that was enviormentally friendly cost 15k, you would buy it? Theres a sucker born every minute, and this "green fad" ropin' em in.

Again, useful if that kind of thing bothers you. I never really minded that aspect.

If there was a good looking effiencent true hybrid, would I run away? No, I believe Chevy has done a nice job with the Silverado Hybrid. Ford's Fusion is good as well.

I just think, a lot of the enviromentalists have gotten out of control with this CAFE, and state emissions stuff, along with tax credits for hybrids. Foregin cars on top of it!

The EPA, and things like CARB, need to stay out of the auto business.

 

Thats why we should drill of the Gulf Coast, and Alaska, but thats another debate.

 

well said.

 

yes it is, please begin a new thread for that discussion. i'm sure there are more than a few here willing to debate you.

 

Yes, Ive had plenty of cars ranging from a 1972 Chevelle to 1980s-1990s Mustangs and Trucks, to a 2000 Corvette, 2000 Trans Am, 2001 GMC 4x4, 2002 Chevy 1/2 ton. I do most of the work myself, Stuff breaks, especially when you modify for high performance. I regdret to inform you that in most cases, imported cars have been much more reliable than domestic products for some time now.

I really am not in a mood to argue environmental ethics because it sounds to me like you have not been educated on the subject. If you truely think environmental concerns are a fad then I highly suggest taking a few college classes to update your knowledge base. It helps to avoid tabloids and political news shows.

If the auto industry isn't going to clean up their act then someone has to step in an ensure it happens. With so many uneducated people purchasing cars we have no hope of cleaning the air unless government stepped in. Sad but true.

 

So Dodge, if I understand correctly, your decision is primarily a political decision. That's OK. We all have our reasons. I won't try to make a rational argument for our case - everyone else here has done a fine job. We can't make you accept it.

It certainly isn't an economic decision. Even if you repair your own vehicles, parts aren't free. And your time is worth SOMETHING, isn't it? Even if they run perfectly to spec, if you use twice as much gas per mile, your gas costs easily offset anything you save by doing your own repairs.

I'll leave the environmental argument out of this, as you aren't feeling it. Even if you bought a more efficient car just to save gas, the environment benefits no matter what.

There are plenty of very efficient American-made cars you should be proud to drive. Maybe not Prius efficient, but much more so than what you're driving now.

 

you're from illinois? must'ev voted for o'bama. figures.

 

Well part of my strong domestic stance is my Mother works for Chrysler.

And no bisco, I was just a youngin, couldnt vote yet, would have gone McCain, though hes not much better.

The one thing I still fail to understand is the total disinterest in anything American made. Its almost as if to some the car envelops some political symbol of "hey look, im hip, I love the enviornment".

Also most of these points are just me picking your guys' brains.

I dont think I could ever drive anything not american made, let alone a hybrid.

To the people that bought these cars when gas was .95-2.50 where was the justification then? Purely enviromental? Thats a lot of dedication, or closing your eyes and walking off a cliff.

 

OK, here goes.

Gallons per mile is 1/mpg. Say you get 15mpg with your old vehicles and would get 45mpg with a 2nd gen Prius (I'm thinking used right now).
Then the gas savings per mile is 1/15 - 1/45 which is 2/45 or 0.04r.

I don't know how many of your miles are substitutable with a Prius so lets take 6,000 miles, 1/3 of your annual miles.

6000 * 2/45 = 266 2/3 gallons per year.

Gasoline is around $3.50 right now

3.5 * (266 2/3) = $933.33 per year in gas savings from just 1/3 of your miles.

A Prius is an extremely reliable car and you can expect low maintenance. Reliability comes from the elegance of the HSD, smart battery management and the use of electric drive-train components to take the load of the engine. Not to mention that you have regenerative braking that allows brakes to last 100,000 miles or longer.

Although reliable there's always a risk with a Prius is that the particular high cost components can fail, those who can work on their own cars (unlike me ), hunt down good salvage parts and are willing to ask and learn here can keep even the cost of expensive repairs down.

The approach you could take would depend on how many of your miles you would or could drive in a Prius. The more you drive the newer the Prius you could buy. 6,000 miles would limit you to an older or salvage Prius. 15,000 miles would save over $2,000 per year in gas and pay for a much newer model.

Of course, that doesn't mean that a Prius is the best thing for you. There are plenty of clean, efficient older vehicles for which you could pay a lot less and still save plenty of money. At $3.50/gallon doubling economy from 15mpg to 30mpg saves $700 per year for every 6,000 miles you substitute.

 

My parents have owned 3 GM products and 2 Chryslers. The GM products were frankly terrible in reliability. They don't buy any from the Detroit automakers anymore and I don't either. We have Toyotas and Nissans now. (One of the Toyotas and one of the Nissans was assembled in the US.)

Many "American" cars are made in Canada and Mexico and/or in some cases, don't have very high domestic part content. For instance, the Chevy Volt has only 40% US/Canadian part content (http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/photos/chevrolet_det_ns_317112.html). You might find http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/autos/1006/gallery.american_made/index.html interesting/surprising.

Chrysler makes 0 cars of interest to me. GM makes maybe 2 that are interesting to me.

Current Chryslers not only have mostly poor reliability, they also don't do well in tests (Car reliability, most reliable cars and Best cars: Consumer Reports).

What's the deal w/being so anti-hybrid? Look at how they do in fuel economy at Most fuel-efficient cars. I don't have time to rehash all the benefits, but see http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...gy-drive-benefits-over-conventional-cars.html.

What's the justification for buying gas guzzling vehicles?

 

You are absolutely right. A Prius doesn't make sense for you at this point in your life.

By driving beaters, I was able to afford vacation property that is a 150 mile round trip away.

It amazes me that I can do that trip with 3 gallons of gas.

A car decision isn't just about today. If gas went to $10 a gallon would I be bothered with a fuel inefficient car? Yes, I would be. With the Prius, I'm not worried about that future risk. If gas goes to $10, my commute is the least of this country's worry's.

Keep thinking about finances, you are on the right track.

 

when was gas .95 a gallon? were you born yet? do you think if a domestic mfg had conceived and built the prius we would not have purchased? au contraire! we bought the concept and the product, not the mfg.where were you in 1999 when the prius came to america at 45mpg? there was nothing domestic even close, and there still isn't. unfortunately.