Prius may not save as much as you think...

There is no doubt that buying a used car will save you more money than buying a new one.

However, you should be comparing a used Gen II Prius vs. a used Matrix similarly equipped. There is no point of comparing new vs. used, imho.

 

My 2 cents, I didn't buy my Prius to save a bunch of money over any length of time. The added cost of buying any prius over a similar car will not usually pay for it self in gas usage alone. It was about getting a car that used less petrol and is kinder to the earth and the people who live here. Its a fantastic bonus that its all tricked out like a spaceship with displays and gadgets. This is all from a guy who had a SVT Ford Lightning that got 12MPG no matter what speed I drove it. I miss that power (A LOT) but I like to be at the extreme end of things I guess.

 

Here is my view

Depreciation – The Prius has a very good trade in value. Better than most.
Taxes & Fees – They are a % of the price of the car. It does matter what car you buy.
Financing - They are a % of the price of the car. It does matter what car you buy.
Fuel – I have saved a boat load of money on this. Notes below.
Insurance – My Prius had lower insurance then my previous car.
Maintenance – It does cost 2x as much for an oil change but I get them done at 10K not 5K. So really I break even.
Repairs – My last Toyota never broke. I have 100,000 miles and zero repairs on my 2010 Prius.

Fuel detail – My last car was a Toyota 4Runner that got 16MPG city and highway. I will save $23,267 in gas over 150,000 miles compared to the 4Runner. That is about what I paid for the car. I will be at 150,000 after 4.2 years.

If you drive a lot like me that Prius saves a lot of money!!!!!

 

You may know the answer, or someone else may know the answer, but how much kinder to the earth are we really being? The bits they use to make a Hybrid come from somewhere up north I thought, it gets boated over to Japan or China, passed around some more only to be shipped back here. I'm just wondering how much pollution is put on the earth to make the hybrid. More or less than say an American made car would? How many Hybrids on the road over what period of time does it take to make up for the pollution that is created during the manufacturing process?
I too like to say I'm eco-friendly and kinder to the earth. Not just because of the Prius, but because I recycle, use natural cleaning products, and I stay away from harsh chemicals and the likes. Even recycling requires a lot of pollution though. Seems like it all just kind of evens out.

 

I agree with your thoughts, we also don't use chemicals whenever possible and always recycle or reuse items (which is better that recycling). Its my understanding that the plants that make the cars even use special paint on the walls to help capture any CO2 generated during manufacturing. I cant speak to the actual shipments but can tell you that even cars made here in the US use lots of parts from overseas. So you if figure the ship carrying those parts might also carry a Prius than its a wash. I think your point can be made against all cars unless all the parts and everything are made in house. Otherwise its necessary to ship parts and stuff all over the place to make a car with 20K+ parts in it.

 

I completely agree, all cars create pollution to be made, but surely there are some that are on the lower end range and some on the higher end range. I think it would be quite the task to figure that all out though. Frankly I just like saving money on gas each month, and the potential of keeping value in my car for re-sale (that was before the accident, now it's just an expensive heap of parts.)

 

Normally, 20% of the energy are spend on manufacturing and shipping the car. 80% in running it.

Since hybrids use less gas (energy) to operate, the ratio may be closer to 50-50. I really don't know the actual number, just guesstimating.

 

You've pretty well nailed it:

• 3/36000 - handles infantile, manufacturing defects (they built it wrong)
• 6/60000 - original owner was an nice person and ran it hard and dry
• 8/100000 - for the hybrid fearful, confidence that they'll get a few years of use

Anything after the 3/36000 and closer to 6/60000 is a good buy. Beyond that, you start getting into the 'gamble' about whether 'the little old lady' never changed the oil between track-days on the streets and talking the cops out of traffic tickets. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

I sold my 2000 4Runner with 305,000 miles and I got $5,000 for. The first repair I did on that SUV was at 170,000 miles. I never replaced the rear brakes on the car, the front were replaced once at 170,000.

My 2010 Prius has 100,000 miles and zero repairs.

 

$0.50 per mile or $20+ per day. The underlying lesson in all such comparisons is that cars are damned expensive.

 

But when I replaced my Gen II 12v battery it was the first motorcycle battery I'd ever seen for $145 + tax -- and only available from Toyota. The parts counter guy assured me that "because the Prius is a hybrid it requires a special battery". Only thing that seemed special was that none else sold a battery with the non-standard terminals of the Toyota battery. PITA to replace too, buried in the back, cold winter day, bruised frozen knuckle job, but lord knows what the dealer would have charged to replace it. OTOH I still love the car.

 

I believe a Mazda Miata battery also fits, but changes need to be made to accomodate the standard post size. Having bought one for my Miata from the dealer a few years back, I think it cost around $100.

 

What a terrible comparison.

For starters you pick a high trim variant of the Prius to compare to a low trim variant of an every day car. Of course your deprecation costs are going to be huge, but it would be the same for the other vehicle if you picked it's highest trim as well. You don't purchase the extra features to increase the value of the car, you do it because you want those features.

Secondly the values they are using for fuel costs are the average mileage for an American which is between ~15,000-12,000 miles/year. By the nature of averages, 50% of Americans will drive MORE than 15,000miles/year. If you drive more than that, your fuel savings increase significantly over a regular car. These averages are misleading since they give you the mean but not the standard deviation or the distribution of the mileage driven. If 16% of Americans drive over 20,000 miles/year, that's a lot of people who would benefit from a Hybrid. I drive around 22,000 miles/year for example.

Third, the Deprecation cots are misleading as well. The deprecation values are misleading and ignore kbbs own used car values. A used 2010 Prius with 45000 miles is $17,000 private party on kbb while they claim it has $11481 deprecation in the first 3 years... Which is... WRONG. Deprecation using their own used car values(private party) is $7200. The Prius is actually one of the best value cars you can get if you factor in deprecation costs since it holds its value so well.

Fourth, you and many of these other "unbiased" journalists compare the Prius to compact sized cars, when the Prius is in the midsize category. When you compare cars with the same amount of interior and cargo space, the Prius comes ahead in total cost of ownership.

 

Sooooooo, one thing I noticed wasn't on the list is the "cool" factor. When considering and calculating in this awesome factor, my estimated Total Cost of Ownership is off the charts low!

 

Please see Environmental - Prius Wiki. Sounds like you've been watching Top Gear.

Please also see

and National Geographic Channel - Human Footprint - Our Driving Imprint to see where parts from a domestically made car come from.

Also consider that the model year 2011 vehicle in the US averaged 22.8 mpg per http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/fetrends/2012/420s12001a.pdf from executive summary at Light-Duty Automotive Technology, Carbon Dioxide Emissions, and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 Through 2011 | OTAQ | US EPA.

Let's assume a Prius only gets 45 mpg instead of 50 mpg combined. After 150K miles, the 22.8 mpg vehicle would've consumed ~3245 additional gallons of gasoline, weighing 20,447 pounds, of which burning it would've produced 64,912 pounds of additional CO2 over the 45 mpg car.

Those 20,447 extra pounds of fuel has to come from oil (a non-renewable resource) that must be explored for, drilled, pumped, transported, refined (yet more energy needed for that), transported again, pumped and then carried as dead weight in a car. CIA - The World Factbook shows where the world's oil resides. The US imports ~48% of its oil, more in better times.

From the approximate figures below, you really think a 3042 lb car (curb weight of Gen 3) w/a ~100 lb. NiMH battery pack w/~32 lbs. of nickel (80% of which is being reused per Mr. Green's Web-Only Mailbag - November/December 2007 - Sierra Magazine - Sierra Club) is going to have a huge impact vs. the above?

What about the 5200+ lb. battering ram of death class SUVs (e.g. Tahoes, Yukons, Escalades, Navigators, etc.) which get on the order of 15 mpg combined? From numbers above when changing to a 15 mpg vehicle = 6666.7 gallons extra weighing 42000 pounds and producing ~133333 extra pounds of CO2.

Yep.

 

Others have already addressed the technical details:

You might find the original source, some scruff from 2007, interesting:
Is this where the nickel from Prius comes from? | PriusChat

The Sunday Mail withdrew the article but not before a bunch for Prius-skeptics made copies and have been spreading it around even today. So if you want to have some fun, tell your source that the Prius is also blocking Canadian Tar Sand pipeline.

Bob Wilson