Prius c Concept

I've not been paying attention to this because ever since I began driving electric (the Zap Xebra and now the Tesla) I sort of figured I'd keep my 2004 Prius for road trips only, so it's all the gas car I'd ever need.

But seeing that the Prius c will be smaller and get better mileage, I'm suddenly interested. I prefer a smaller car, just because I think small is good, and a car that burns less gas than my Prius seems like a good thing. (The Gen 3 is not enough of an improvement to justify trading, IMO.)

A few things that would be important for me:

1. How much better would be the highway (65 mph) mpg compared to the 2004 Prius? The information I read on a quick Google search said it was only intended as a city commuter car. A lighter car might be more affected by aerodynamic drag at highway speed, and I would very seldom drive the Prius anywhere except highway. (Exception: the Tesla is too small for hauling recycling to the recycling place unless I go much more often than I've been doing. Or any time I need to haul anything big or carry more than one passenger.) So I'd want to see what the highway mpg is. If it's enough of an improvement, it would be worth trading, not because of the cost of gas, which I don't care about, but because I prefer to use less gas.

2. Highway handling. Again, I'd be driving it almost 100% on the highway. My Prius is a bit squirrelly on the highway if there is a strong crosswind. I can live with it. But if this car is really only intended as a city commuter, and is any worse on the highway than my Prius, I probably would not switch.

3. Comfort. Since I'd be using it for six- to seven-hour road trips, it would have to be at least as comfortable as my Prius, which is one of the less-comfortable cars I've driven for long road trips.

4. Features. I don't like a lot of features. I want ABS and VSC and air bags all around, for safety. I am not an audiophile but I want a decent stereo (does not have to be a great stereo) with an iPod connector because of the long distances I'd be driving it. Cruise control is a necessity for road trips. Heater and A/C, but climate control need not be fancy. Just the ability to get some heat and some cold into the car.

5. AWD??? Apparently there are suggestions it will have AWD. That would be nice, and if so I'd probably use it instead of the Tesla when there's snow on the roads, though I never go out until the streets have been plowed. Sometimes there's still some snow, especially in parking lots. But I gather most think the AWD reference is a mistake.

The 2004 Prius is a bigger car than I have any need of. I like the idea of a smaller, more efficient Prius. I'm looking forward to seeing the c. I don't give a rat's patootie what it looks like. I think my Prius is a rather ugly car. I don't care. It's efficient and burns less gas than any other gas car. If the c burns less gas than the bigger Priuses, that will make it a better car IMO.

 

I'm sure the Prius c will get better highway than your gen2. I just don't think it will be great an improvement its city rating will do to the aerodynamics. If it has the squirrelly handling in cross winds, the c's lighter weight might make it worse.

Would you consider a diesel, Daniel? If the majority of your miles in the guzzler are going to be highway, a diesel might be a better choice. You'll have to suffer with worse mileage in town, but it seems most will easily beat their highway rating. It likely won't interest you, but GM is introducing a diesel Cruze in 2013. Others will likely follow. Honda might reconsider them then.

Then Ford will have their small(1 and 1.4 liter) ecoboosts in the Fiesta and Focus. There is already Hyundais/Kias with auto stop systems.

The small cars are closing in of hybrid economy on the highway. The Prius c intrigues me also, but there'll be even more options in the next couple of years.

 

Diesel is FILTHY and STINKS. No, I would not consider diesel. If gas stations sold post-consumer biodiesel ("used french fry oil") I might consider it. But for me, dino diesel is out of the question. The higher mpg figure is more than overbalanced by the black filth of carcinogens the monstrosities spew out.

Okay, people are going to start telling me how clean the new kind of diesel is. My nose tells me otherwise.

If the Prius c gets significantly better mpg and is no less comfortable and handles no less well than my Prius, I'll consider trading. I doubt there is another car I'd consider as an alternative to my Prius. 50 mpg (which I get on the highway) in a car with this much luggage space will be hard to beat. And Toyota reliability is exceeded by none and matched by few.

 

Those damn scientists also say that the Earth is round, but my eyes say otherwise!

 

Totally, Prius c will get better MPG on the highway (if a comparable diesel exists) and outclass it in the city traffic. Emission and the equipment to keep it clean is maintenance-free with Prius c.

 

There are no diesel options in the U.S. that could compete with the Prius c. In fact I don't even think there is one in Europe either. The Polo just barely beats the current Geniii liftback. Not that Daniel would purchase one anyway. I like some of the diesel options but I respect Daniel enough that I wouldn't press the issue.

I really don't need a new car and everytime I stand outside and look at my lil Genii, I think to myself "yeah she still looks good".

On the otherhand, the new c could just win me over. Especially if I know my friends at ClubTdi couldn't come close to my mpg numbers.

 

Take Opel/Vauxhall Corsa ecoFLEX for a comparable diesel, EU test cycle 4.3 l/100 km urban 3.1 extra-urban 3.5 combined (Prius 3.9, 3.7, 3.9)

OK It's a small 1.3 liter diesel engine and it gets 0-62 in 12,3 sec. Emissions are one thing and consumption is another, also diesel is diesel and petrol is petrol.
Where I live diesel is cheaper than petrol, this is the main reason why you don't see many Prius-es in Europe.

 

That car seem to be smaller than even the Prius c. The regular Prius should be a few class bigger.

We'll have to see Prius c official numbers in EU cycle. US EPA cycle is more aggressive so I wonder how those under-powered diesels would do here.

 

The new emission controls leaves diesel cars with cleaner tailpipes than the Prius after thousands of miles. The exhaust coming out can be cleaner than the air going in.

If the car can handle it, and this depends on the new emission control designs mostly, I consider biodiesel a far better avenue to pursue than ethanol for blending with petro fuels. Some truck stops do offer those blends. Of course butanol is even better.

 

The Prius c Cd value is 0.28.
Following is a comparison of (Cd X width X height) numbers shown Gen2 Prius as 1.00.
Gen2 Prius:Gen3 Priusrius c = 1.00 : 0.97 : 1.03
The Prius c is a few percent more efficient than the Gen2 because of the cooled EGR and electric motor driven water pump.
The Gen3 is 10% more efficient on highway than the Gen2 because of low rpm 1.8L engine.
My guess is the Gen3 will be a winner here.

In general, a bigger car is more stable on highway than a small car.
My guess is the Gen3 will be a winner here too.

In general, a bigger car is more comfort on highway than a small car.
In fact, my feeling is the Gen3 is more comfort on highway than the Gen2, especially with DRCC driving on the Gen3.
My guess is the Gen3 will be a winner here.too.

IMHO, the Prius c will be the best city commuter in HV category.

Ken@Japan

 

Regarding cross winds buffeting the car, a smaller car can be better than a bigger car. The main factor is what the profile looks like (height vs. wheelbase), and if the sides are vertical vs. leaning in at the top.

 

Unfortunately, the new cars can't handle it. Well, some diesel heads experiment with higher blends but they're voiding their warranty. It's ironic, because most types of pollution are significantly reduced by biodiesels. Given the high energy return of biodiesel production I hope that pressures will force manufacturers to work to increase the biodiesel limit.

 

Biodiesel won't work for me, because my highway driving (95% of my ICE driving) is up to Canada for my summer hiking. (If I ever have to quit hiking, I'd be able to live with just one pure EV and no other car.) I would not be able to get biodiesel out in the boonies where I drive. Minor highways connecting Spokane and places like Golden, B.C., Revelstoke, B.C., Banff, AB, Lake Louise, B.C., etc.

Having worked on a dairy farm, I had to pump both gasoline and diesel. Diesel (to my nose) stinks worse than even gasoline, so I'm not willing to even consider dino diesel.

 

My understanding is that is the DPF regen system that limits biodiesel content. To unclog the filter, to gets sprayed with fuel to burn off the soot. Most, if not all, manufacturers just have some fuel pumped into the cylinder during the exhaust stroke. Biodiesel can gum up the works going through that path. The fix is to have fuel injected directly into the exhaust up from the filter. Cost is the only reason it isn't done now.

 

Agree that a diesel vehicle would probably not be ideal in your situation.

However, please don't base your perception of current diesel vehicles on your dairy farm experience. Assuming you're referring to the exhaust and not the fuel itself, there's no noticeable odor whatsoever from the exhaust of our 2010 diesel car, not even right at the tailpipe right after a cold start, at least my nose can't detect anything.

 

Just to correct some misconceptions in this post. I have a recycler a couple miles away that has biodiesel recycled from restaurant waste. I live in the land of willie nelson and he is a big proponent. For local driving no problem, but you can't buy the stuff out at a random gas station. There simply is not enough waste to recycle to cover the country, but there are other methods like algae that look promising. The local guys tell us that their biodiesel will actually pollute a little more than oil based diesel, but they are doing it to reuse the stuff. New clean diesel is pretty damn clean, but not as clean emissions wise as a Prius. I'm hoping for more progress on the diesel algae side which will solve some sustainability problems and actually can use some waste co2 from power plants.

 

When they say clean diesel, they mean clean for a diesel, big difference.

 

This debate over how much of a City Only Commuter the c will be?

Well, I think Toyota has to make every vehicle it produces "capable" of being driven on the highways and freeways.

It appears it's going to be sub-compact size. Therefore? What should you expect? It's NOT going to be as solid or smooth on the freeway as a mid-size or full sized vehicle.

But to me? You often get out of vehicle, what you put in...people drive Smart Cars on the freeway. I met a couple on the Oregon Coast who had driven their Smart Car all the way down from Canada on a long West Coast vacation tour.

So my expectations would be that The Prius c, be as good on the freeway or for long drives as my current Honda Fit. Which is to say, to me? Fine. Not necessarily luxurious, or silky smooth...but perfectly capable of being able to be used on occasional long drives and road trips. I like a smaller car, even on a long trip. I stay active when I drive and actually don't like the "I'm Sitting In My Lounger at Home" while I'm going 65mph down the freeway feeling, you can get while driving a larger vehicle on a longer drive.

Toyota really cannot afford to produce a vehicle that is ONLY a city commuter, even if that is what it might be best at....