Prius Battery Replacement (GenII) Like you've never seen - NEW Cylindrical Cells

Is that the answer to the first question I asked?

I am genuinely interested to know your credentials or training as it goes directly to your credibility.

Probably more a case of very suspicious of the new kid on the block coming in guns blazing in attack mode.

Seen it before.

They usually swoop in and then disappear just as quick.

 

Cute.

Clearly not reading what I post. No problem.

My credentials aren't relevant. 3rd party data provided. Descriptions of physical dimensions and characteristics that are self-evident with a touch of conclusions based on the supplied facts. Even if you dismiss the conclusions, you can't argue with the data provided or the parts you can see for yourself just by looking.

Essentially, you are taking the position that if a 3rd party, such as a journalist, presents data you can verify through other channels is NOT an authority in the field of the data presented, the article/information is not credible. I don't think it works that way.

You should really do a personal assessment of your motivation, objectivity and effort you're exerting to embrace completely unsubstantiated claims and reject claims supported by 3rd party data or data you can see for yourself.

 

I'm genuinely interested in your credentials and I've read all you've written in response to the OPs claims.

 

Not trying to be cute or anything else.

Well kind of, if I am going to pay attention to what someone is saying I do really need to know they know what they are talking about. I can accept an article from a writer with no expertise in the subject, but it is whole lot more credible coming from a writer with expertise in the subject.

I actually am not embracing or rejecting anything in particular at this point, and my motivation is to ensure I have a good understanding of not just what is said, but also who is saying it and why. Nothing more at this point.

 

I'll try to say this again in a different way.

OP says he is running cylindrical batteries in his car.
He documents with pics and info on what he is doing.
He offers to sell similar setup to other people, identifies pricing, etc

Other people can do it if they want... or not.

The negative reaction to someone sharing what they are doing kind of stifles any conversation on alternatives.
I don't get it.

As far as warranty from China there issue can be quality, sure, but it can also be simply a matter of logistics.
The OP is being transparent that there is no warranty rather than trying to be coy or offering a false hard-to-redeem warranty.

 

I think BK310 has issues with the claims of the China batteries being superior to that of Toyota batteries. The data he is sharing is to debunk the superiority claim

 

i understand disagreement and fact posting. it would be helpful to eliminate attack mode, as that intimates hidden agenda.

 

It is a little controversial as I see PriusChat has a sales orientated mission, coupled with other side discussions that of course tend to predominate.

If Prius batteries continue to die at the rate we see for say 2004-2006 models, we will have an enormous bumper crop of bad batteries down the road as sales increased in the 2008-2012 period. However on the surface anecdotally it seems to me batt failure rates are going down since 2008, so maybe Toyota has improved reliability (from good to excellent) as they moved into Gen3.

There is a curious question, if it costs $2000 for a NiMH, how can Prime be so darn cheap for a much larger Li battery?

 

"NiMH cells have an alkaline electrolyte, usually potassium hydroxide. The positive electrode is nickel hydroxide, and the negative electrode is hydrogen ions, or protons. The hydrogen ions are stored in a metal-hydride structure that is the electrode."

So not acid but a base, but the point is a corrosive liquid that can leak out in some failure modes, right?.

 

Wth?!? Toyota batteries have reliable, 3-year warranties. And cost the same as this unproven prototype. This semi-new copycat system is going have to be MUCH cheaper and have a longer track record to be considered anything other than a VERY expensive science experiment. Hell, any real world data would is essential before a $2000 purchase. 2k1Toaster should be giving these things away for testing well before he tries to make any profit. Do I really need to remind anyone of the well intentioned EnginerPIP failure?

 

do we know how much toyota pays for a prime battery, or if they are making, breaking even, losing money, or need carb credits?

 

Todd at Tampa Hybrids did a conversion using a 2016 NiMH modules and putting into Gen2. It seems to have worked well. So Toyota would have to at least service the 2016 NiMH batteries for a good 10+ years with parts. By 2026, the Gen2 cars will probably be in junkyards.

Also Panasonic doesn't even produce these batteries anymore. I was told the following information from a friendly source.

Panasonic EV Energy produced Honda/Toyota cells from 1996 to 2010. 60% Panasonic ownership, 40% Toyota.
Panasonic divested itself of EV Energy to 20% with Toyota holding 80% sometime in the 06-09 time frame. This was to alleviate monopoly concerns when they acquired Sanyo.
In 2010, Panasonic EV Energy changed their name to Primearth EV Energy.

Also keep in mind these modules are not only in Prius cars. They are in many other cars (listed below, but there may be more). Different configurations but using the same 6 cell modules. I don't think these will be in short supply. Even GM SUV's use them, 40 in a pack.

Lexus CT200 (28), GS450h (40)
Camry (34)
Altima (34)
Prius (28)
GM SUV (Yukon, Escalade, etc.) (40)

 

As far as I know you can't just put a price in $/kWh on a battery. A 1 kWh battery in a hybrid must cope with 20C, 60kWh battery in EV does not so it can have lower $/kWh price. PHEV battery is somewhere in between, I don't beleive Toyota is loosing money on Prime.

 

Exactly. I've already indicated that I accept it as an option; however, every single claim of superiority is false and unsupported.

I'm just an enthusiast with a technical degree in a technical field, i.e., nerd.

 

Tough crowd. Toaster has been here a long time many years and knows what he's talking about. Bk's been here a few days and taking him to town. Geesh.
I wish you well toaster. Keep it coming.

 

I consider myself an enthusiast and have a Chemical Engineering degree in the chemical industry (a fairly technical field). I don't see the need to be contrary for the sake of being such .

Life is too short, I choose to focus on the positive and I let the negative thoughts drift away.

Good luck in your endeavor @2k1Toaster .