Prime vs. Hyundai Ioniq

Reminds me of a story about how totally dumb the American car-buying public really is. I once sold a middle-aged lady a brand new Alfa Romeo 4-door sedan stick. After spending several hours displaying the car, explaining it to her, and driving it for her since she did not wish to drive it herself, she bought the car. Upon taking delivery, she realized that it was a stick, which she did not know how to drive! Her son drove it home for her, and explained that he would teach her how to drive it! Oh and the main reason she bought the car, she liked the color! Only in America!

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Haha, in some countries in Europe, there is a 14-day "cooling off" period, where if you buy a new car and you have buyer's remorse, you can return the car for a full refund within 14 days... in USA, even if you change your mind after an hour of owning the car, and the car is practically brand new, NO WAY to return it or get your money back... you can re-sell an hour-old car to the dealership for like a 20% loss ;-)

 

True, there's no right of rescission in the U.S. when you purchase a car, but this lady had not yet bought the car! She was getting ready to sign the papers!! She could have easily backed out, and I was disappointedly ready for that, but she insisted that she liked it and wanted to proceed!! My RV dealership was way too kind to "crooked" customers: 1 guy bought a $75,000 RV, just before a 3 day holiday from the owner of the dealership (Kendon RV), and returned it the following week for a FULL refund because he didn't like it!! My boss was an idiot to give this creep all his money back, but he didn't want the hassle! Another guy bought an RV without his wife (chauvinist pig!!) saying that he "wore the pants in his family!"
Monday he returned to get his money back when his wife objected! He got the money back after the finance manager asked him "I thought you said you wore the pants in your family!" Again the owner let this jerk get his money back too. Yes customers lie too!!

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You're full of great stories! I wonder if there was ever a case where someone bought a Prius and then after "sleeping overnight" with the purchase, decided that they didn't want the car, drove back to the Toyota dealership and got most of his/her money back... I would be OK if the dealer said "we'll charge a 5% restocking fee" .... they are entitled to that, I guess since the car now has say 30 miles on the odometer.

 

Bull! It was probably your Gallic accents.

Now if you just kept her phone number. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

Aw, mon ami eet eez really wut appened!! Helas, she was charming, but happily married. Ironically both of these dealerships went bankrupt after I left!! It doesn't pay to be too nice in the car biz!
I think too that all the legal documentation coupled with state interests in taxes and licensing fees probably play against right of rescission laws, not to mention your restocking fee idea where games could be played...

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Funny you should mention this. I always signed up for employee stock purchase, the max with matching company funds. But when I left, I always sold the stock, made a profit, and often saw their stock price take a dive. After all, they weren't bright enough to keep me as an employee(*).

Bob Wilson

* - I am the Humblest engineer.

 

It is bad enough to read about 'sheet metal' art and hear excessive exhaust notes when driving.

It makes me:


Bob Wilson

 

thing is bob, on a prius forum you will find many who like or have got used to the way the CVT in the prius drives, when you come outside the Toyota world the split for and against is different with a lower percentage who like the CVT,

pro's and con's to both transmissions, but at the end of the day comes down to personal preference

only thing to do is drive both and make your own mind up

 

Sorry about the Dr. Who reference, perhaps a poor attempt at humor:

Not to worry, I still remember back in 2005-06, the Honda Civic had a mechanical CVT and the various maintenance problems shared in GreenHybrid, not so many here. I don't remember when or if Honda dropped the mechanical CVT in the Civic. Just I never could get inspired by a transmission that was so dependent on a chain-belt on conical drives because of the stresses imposed on the chain/belt along with the need for some sort of clutch. But I could see reasons for having specific ratios in a mechanical CVT.

A mechanical CVT is likely to have ratios where the belt and cones become resonate to specific frequencies that would increase stress on the parts. Specific operational ratios, not infinitely variable, could avoid destructive or high-wear resonate frequencies. Also, a detent system for specific ratios could 'unload' the transients and 'load' the belt and cones to reduce slippage. Just there are so many slippage contact points under high-stress that I just don't see it having as long of a life as a regular, discrete gear set or the eCVT of the Prius.

Bob Wilson

 

I found a nice description at Car and Driver: How CVT Transmissions Are Getting Their Groove Back – Feature – Car and Driver

The transmission is small but my eyes still see impressive stress on the chain and drives. But like the v-belts of old, I still see 'wear' surfaces. However, materials for the chain and conical drives might have improved to the point that these stresses can be applied without significant slippage and wear.

I also found this useful YouTube description:

Now one description reports the engine oil pump has a dedicated port to provide the hydraulic pressure needed to operate the CVT. I would still want to know more about the fluid(s). If engine oil is used, then one of problems with changing the transmission oil is solved with every engine oil change ... sweet solution. That can keep the wear debris to an acceptable level for longer life.

Weber to the rescue:

A "push" belt, very clever. A traditional (i.e., old man's pulley) works in tension which means as the load increases, the belt gets narrower and leads to a gap. But a push belt expands as the load increases improving the forces holding the belt firmly in the pulley walls. Now it makes a lot more sense.

Bob Wilson

 

That video and the others on the CVT are pretty amazing. The "push belt" is a very interesting piece of construction. I'm surprised the metal on metal surfaces grab as well as they do. It really makes you appreciate the design and thought that goes into these vehicles.

 

I spotted a brand new white Hyundai Ioniq still with temporary tag on it at parking lot this morning. Didn't have time to observe it. I think I will get a good look at it, and compare it with my PRIME. Oh, this is the Prime vs. Ioniq thread, wasn't it?

 

Saw this article with a PODIUM and Ioniq is #1... Although the Prime beats the Tesla!!
2017 U.S. MPGe Podium: Hyundai Ioniq, Prius Prime, Tesla Model 3 - autoevolution

 

I don’t think Mpg-e should be allowed on cars with less than 50 mile range. It just serves as something to confuse customers. What’s to prevent Toyota from claiming that the regular Prius has a 150mpge since it can be driven for about a mile on electricity, and weighs a lot less.

133mpge means very little to me versus 25 miles of range.

 

You have to wait for the 2018 Ioniq plugin to compare it to the Prius Prime. The good news, Toyota now has direct competition and they will obviously have to up their game on the Gen 5 Prius. Just my two cents. It would probably make sense for Toyota to keep their CVT transmission format and increase the electric engine HP on the next generation. I don't know how many horses the Gen4 electric motor has but some where around 35-40hp. If they had 60-70hp on the electric motor part of the Prius. That would provide much improved 0-60 times which is important part for many when considering what car they purchase. The electric motor torque is very noticeable on the current generation Prius. I think a Prius 0-60 in the 7-8 second range would end much of the Prius criticism.

 

why, what does ionic have over prius?

 

The prime has 91hp in electric mode.

I also don’t think 0-60 times are apart of the criticisms.

Range, seating, boot space, and looks are arguably apart of the prime’s negatives